The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Macaroni's plan speaks for itself, and was clearly the wrong approach.

As I've been saying, we should slowly be raising federal taxes on fossil fuels, on a published schedule, so that the market and public have plenty of time to prepare. You don't jack the price of fuel up in one stroke. Maybe something like 1 cent per gallon increase every month, starting a year from now. That works out to something like an extra $30 for the average person the first year, but continues to get more expensive over time.

And make the carbon tax a progressive concept that gives the price increase back to those that cannot afford it.

[redneck]

Originally Posted by sendler

And make the carbon tax a progressive concept that gives the price increase back to those that cannot afford it.

Carbon tax...???

A “Carbon tax” is a progressive concept...

No ffffing way...




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[sendler]

We will have to be progressive and find a whole new way. After fossil fuel there will no longer be enough societal surplus to just let the market sort labor into winners and losers. There would be 99% losers that don't have enough to eat. We have to figure it out. How to share more and compete less. Or face a near future of the privileged hiding in walled cities facing off against the Humongous horde fighting from the outside to get in with pointy sticks and dirty bombs.
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[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by sendler

We will have to be progressive and find a whole new way. After fossil fuel there will no longer be enough societal surplus to just let the market sort labor into winners and losers. There would be 99% losers that don't have enough to eat. We have to figure it out. How to share more and compete less. Or face a near future of the privileged hiding in walled cities facing off against the Humongous horde fighting from the outside to get in with pointy sticks and dirty bombs.
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Or something like this. Kind of mad max kind of death race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzLNC-strf0

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by sendler

Finally. Some of the real situation is starting to enter the main stream green media. Transitioning all cars to electric will only save 11% of oil. Even if solar and wind grow by 9X in 2035, fossil fuels will still be 77% of total primary energy considering world growth. It is not just a matter of choice of where we get our energy. We are stuck using all of the above. The fastest possible pace of solar and wind build out can't replace what we need to maintain the economy. And fossil fuel energy will eventually start to slip away. Leaving us short and broke. Anyone alive in 20 years needs to start getting ready now.
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https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ready-too-late
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With respect to the climate issue,transitioning off fossil fuel combustion to EVs and renewable energy,would address the carbon challenge,while maintaining mobility.
It's off-the-shelf technology today,no magic necessary.
And the used EV market will allow even people on the economic margins to drive with a relatively-zero carbon footprint.
When I become rich and famous,I'm going to buy Nate Hagens a window to look out of.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Did you guys see France is on fire today because people are pissed about an increase in gas prices.
This is a perfect example of the gov lowering your standard of living to not fix man made global warming.
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Looks to me like a government doing one of the few things which,historically, has actually ever made a difference with respect to fuel consumption.
You hit people in the pocketbook.They switch to more efficient transportation,and ultimately,they pay the same,or less per mile than before.
I did this voluntarily in 1974 and it's paid me tax-free dividends ever since.
Champagne living on a tap water budget.Nega-gallons.
The standard of living for everyone on the planet increases.We still have a habitable planet to live on.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Xist

I am surprised this is the first time someone has mentioned it. How many of you believe North America needs Europe-level has gas prices?

Who believes they do not go far enough?

How is Macaroni's pen stroking working out?

In 1986 I worked for a home builder in Monument,Colorado.Between Federal,state,and local taxes,he was giving 67% of his income to 'government',and getting virtually nothing in return.He did enjoy 'cheap' fuel as our troops were heading over to the Middle East.

The same year,I traveled with a German national for 8-weeks,who received 6-weeks paid holiday a year,and free healthcare and dental care.
We went into Canada,where they had free healthcare,and even covered 'foreigners' at no charge.Even prescription drugs.
Sure,fuel costs more there,but public transit basically obviated the need for an automobile.
Sometimes leaders have to put on the big-boy pants and do logical things,whether popular or not.
If a 28-cent per gallon Diesel tax is enough to throw a country into into chaos,that's reason enough to get off petroleum as fast as they can say merde.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by sendler

100,000 people are marching in Poland at the climate meeting demanding that the governments "Do something". Even though they have no idea of the scale of what they are asking. By a factor of 100.
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And 100,000 people are marching in Paris demanding that Macron "Stop doing something".

Would you want to flesh out those comments a bit more?
The Polish may have more on the ball than you give 'em credit for.I was there for awhile in 1997,and was favorably impressed with what I saw.
Perhaps Macron 'has a pair' and is willing to use them,rather than swallow a politcal-correctness tablet every time policy comes up.
There's a lot at stake.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by aerohead

With respect to the climate issue,transitioning off fossil fuel combustion to EVs and renewable energy,would address the carbon challenge,while maintaining mobility.
It's off-the-shelf technology today,no magic necessary.
And the used EV market will allow even people on the economic margins to drive with a relatively-zero carbon footprint.
When I become rich and famous,I'm going to buy Nate Hagens a window to look out of.

Transportation is 30% of primary energy. Light duty transportation is half of that at 15%. Mostly liquid fossil fuel. Transitioning all light transportation to electric would save 10% of the total primary energy.
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You have done yourself a great disservice in not trying to understand what Hagens (and many others who have this greater understanding of the relationships between energy, population, economy, and psychology) are attempting to teach us. Hagens' lecture is essential for all humans to understand. And his free 1,000 page books will be out for download soon.
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https://youtu.be/YUSpsT6Oqrg
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The new movie which Nate co-wrote is out. It's content got quite disjointed from too many collaborators in the kitchen but there is some good information there. Especially the section on embodied energy.
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Also. For any movie fans, the cinematography and editing and sound design is award winning.
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Living In The Future's Past
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https://www.amazon.com/Living-Future...27s+past&psc=1
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[sendler]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Would you want to flesh out those comments a bit more?
The Polish may have more on the ball than you give 'em credit for.I was there for awhile in 1997,and was favorably impressed with what I saw.
Perhaps Macron 'has a pair' and is willing to use them,rather than swallow a politcal-correctness tablet every time policy comes up.
There's a lot at stake.

It's easy for "people" to say "just leave it in the ground" (the 100,000 protesting at the current world climate meeting in Poland) when they have no understanding of the relationship between energy/ economy/ population.
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And then when "people" are faced with the economic hardship of forcing the market (carbon tax) to encourage just leaving it in the ground, you get the opposite protest.
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A carbon tax, which I am for, is a tax on 90% of our (virtual) workers and will wreck the economy unless it is done with a progressive give back to the poor and middle class.