The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

Most studies ascribe a 2:1 efficiency increase when replacing all ICE and thermal machines and processes with electric. Of course they never get into how to go about replacing or retrofitting the world's $100 trillion in built out infrastructure. Or storing and transporting all of this electricity to make it useful. And even if we could do all of this it will still leave an 8 TeraWatt average consumption to try to supply.

[freebeard]

permalink 6081

I left you a blow by blow reply with all the specificity I could muster without my library.Since you've publicly insulted me and all my friends perhaps you'll be gentleman enough to read through it.
....
If you're bent on leaving the thread,then please accept a thank you from me,for taking the time and energy to share your insights.

As if... he probably reading right now. Hi, Xist pulling an Arragonis? Everybody's in their little box, right?

I see progress it was Permalink x (Google can't find it) where there was agreement that the Grand Canyon is a vast EDM Lichtenberg figure and Permalink 3921 where you acknowledged the Electric Universe.

*"That's not argument, that's simply contradiction."

[redpoint5]

This thread hasn't got my pulse up at all, because I don't care if I'm right; I merely enjoy the discussion. So far I would say I've learned the most from Sendler and that has slightly moved my opinion on things. freebeard goes above my head usually, and I don't currently have a lifetime of free time to catch up. References are sometimes too obscure for me to grasp without extensive goog... er, duckduckgoing.

aerohead makes it clear that if the issue is existential in nature, then everything is on the table as possible solutions. Most people, including climate scientists, don't regard the problem as existential.

[RedDevil]

2 MW wind mills? Why play around with tiny stuff like that?
Were getting lots of 8 and 10 MW wind mills these days. Every single one provides power for thousands of homes.

We do have some solar farms -but area is in short supply. Most solar panels go on roofs.
We have a problem here - many thousands of old farm houses, stables and shacks etc. have roofing containing asbestos. Those will have to be removed within a few years. The plan now is to facilitate it by replacing every asbestos roof with solar paneling, subsidized, as a prelude to mandating solar paneling for every new or rebuilt roof.
That would mean a 20 to 50 times increase in solar infrastructure investment compared to now. Then it would start being significant.
If they really get to do it, that is.

As of today we broke our yearly sunshine record at 2022 hours. The coming days will be bright too, we may well end the year at over 2100 hour of clear skies. The average is less than 1600...

[oil pan 4]

When the wind blows.
In new Mexico we have the highest yearly wind capacity utilization in the world and it's only 40% to 50% the wind can blow hard for 24 hours some days. Anything less than 25% utilization and it's considered not worth building a wind farm.

[redpoint5]

Higher capacity wind turbines don't really undermine what Sendler was getting at. Suppose we're using 8 MW turbines instead; that's still 250,000 individual turbines. Since they are larger, they are more labor and materials intensive. It might not be as difficult as building 1M smaller turbines, but it's not significantly easier.

Where's the storage? If no storage, where is the backup generation coming from when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining?

[oil pan 4]

The 8mw wind turbine blades may not be able to be transported to some remote areas.

There may not be enough cranes to put up 8+Mw turbines faster than 2mw.
I'm assuming that the bigger crane when loaded has lower wind tolerance too so fewer build days will be available.

[RedDevil]

Wind or solar are never going to be the only source of energy. Because obviously, sometimes it is overcast while there's no wind as well. At least locally.
Still, it is all moot until solar and wind power expand over 25 times from their current levels. We can absorb everything on a windy and sunny day. Denmark may have some overproduction days from their giant wind farms, but the rest of Europe readily absorbs what they throw at them.

Overproduction needs to be the standard. Then we can really start storing energy in Tesla's big MF batteries for lulls in the weather.

[aerostealth]

For oil pan, love it when great wits say something is impossible. Strangely they continue to think the current state of affairs that is a spiraling impossibility is the only forward.

https://youtu.be/SwxmIYGpbn4

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by sendler

Most studies ascribe a 2:1 efficiency increase when replacing all ICE and thermal machines and processes with electric. Of course they never get into how to go about replacing or retrofitting the world's $100 trillion in built out infrastructure. Or storing and transporting all of this electricity to make it useful. And even if we could do all of this it will still leave an 8 TeraWatt average consumption to try to supply.

Looking at Chicago specifically, things like AC, lighting, and most of Chicago's transit are electric already. Changing the source of the electricity won't have any effect on their efficiency. Replacing all the buses and every car with electric will increase demand, not reduce it, as will a rising population. Replacing natural gas heat and water heaters with electric will, again, increase electric demand. There's no way moving away from fossil fuels entirely will decrease demand by more than half as they say it will, and if anything I would expect it to do the opposite.

ETA: In the ads at the bottom of this page, the image for this thread is a still from Mad Max 2. I find that amusing. Someone must have posted it a while back.