The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

Originally Posted by aerohead

*If we freeze a snapshot of 2014 population and consumption,and consider our challenge regarding decarbonization,then we'd need only to consider building out 900-GW worth of capacity to handle the total power requirement for the nation.
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Now you are being just as intentionally over simplistic the other way. Electricity production and storage from rebuildable sources is not without losses. Round trip electrolytic Hydrogen production is 30% for example. And you are ignoring the fact that the recent examples I gave have already stated total energy requirements that were cut to 1/2 of the current levels. Which is what the studies have shown would be real world feasible with a complete and ideal electrification of everything.
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And you are repeating the same mistake that the media has taught you by saying that "we need only 900-GW worth of CAPACITY for our requirements".
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When in fact the capacity factor for the best solar farm in the USA is 31%. And onshore wind in ideal locations will be similar. Solar farms in my area average 13.7% capacity factor. Onshore wind barely more.
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So we would need 3-TW CAPACITY of rebuildable energy capacity using your number. 5-TW using mine. Plus storage. We are not that far apart. Either one is immense in real world scale as I have shown repeatedly.
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I wish we could stop these back and forths. It is a waste of time.
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I'm not anti rebuildable energy. I'm pro math.

[NeilBlanchard]

Day Zero in India Looming For Millions

[freebeard]

Now you are being just as intentionally over simplistic the other way.

There's only two ways? What about the consumption side of the equation. That's where the low-hanging fruit is.
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https://news.slashdot.org: Bloomberg To Put $500 Million Into Closing All Remaining Coal Plants By 2030 (cbsnews.com)

Originally Posted by NYT

A spokesman for Mr. Bloomberg said most of the money would be spent over the next three years, though the time frame could be extended. It will fund lobbying efforts by environmental groups -- in state legislatures, City Councils and public utility commissions -- that aim to close coal plants and replace them with wind, solar and other renewable power. Part of the cash also will go toward efforts to elect local lawmakers who prioritize clean energy.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Day Zero in India Looming For Millions[/URL]

We must accept that there will be climate refugees and migration. The world is too small. Imperialistic national borders will cease to function. People will not stay where there is no water, food, or shelter from heat and cold. They will start walking. We must learn to help each other the world over. Those that have had the good fortune to do very well for themselves in the current (previous) system must learn to chip in more.
India has actually made good strides with national programs in the more developed areas in promoting their "Two is enough" planned parenthood education where an army of female councilors goes out door to door to distribute information and contraceptives.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by freebeard

There's only two ways? What about the consumption side of the equation. That's where the low-hanging fruit is.

This is what I have been saying here for the last 2 years but get shot down every time because people find it too painful to hear. Things will (must) be much smaller and simpler (for those of us in the OECD) in the future.
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The truth can't hurt.

[freebeard]

My favorite examples:




http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...jpg?1441304423

The house, the car and (not pictured) the bathroom are the key components.

Imperialistic national borders will cease to function.

What about nationalistic national borders?

[redpoint5]

There has to be borders because there has to be defined spaces. The same reason you have a door on your house and restrict who comes in is the same reason we draw boundaries around a country and restrict who can come in. Zero difference.

That said, I agree that we need to care for those with needs, most crucially as moral individuals.

[sendler]

Doors on a house is a bit different from walls around an arbitrary country. But it is much better to help people where they are than to let them uproot. The reality is that many places where people have traditionally lived are becoming uninhabitable.
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It is a slight random miracle that we are headed for a solar super grand minimum for the next 20 years which will help buy us some time to figure it out before we really start seeing days of wet bulb temps of 95F/ 35C which is lethal if you don't have some way to cool off.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

And all of them add to the expense of renewables.

Sure! However,after amortization,and the renewable 'fuel' is essentially 'free',even with storage,the power is cheaper.
If you can pull off carbon capture and sequestration for 100% of the smokestack emissions,plus pull atmospheric concentrations down to pre-industrial -revolution concentrations,we've got it made!

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Looks like it's most a climate crisis for people who live on a flood plain or at sea level.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers designed dams,levees, and berms for a planet that no longer exists.
These extreme weather events are symptomatic of a warming planet.
The Gulf of Mexico has already tried to spit out a hurricane in the first week of the season.
I suppose we could imprison half the American Association of Realtors,The municipal and county Building permit officers,Tax appraisal district employees,Mayors,City council members,City managers,City engineers,Chambers of commerce,developers,and material suppliers,etc..
The crisis will effect everyone,you and your's included.