The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I like these parts.

I got a ride in my son's new Silverado (it gets 43 instantaneous mpg with cylinder deactivation), so I can now distinguish $50K pickups from $40K pickups. I rode my bike to the laundamart and there was $140K of pickups in the parking lot and at least three people inside who can not afford their own washer and dryer.

That's the problem that needs to be fixed.

Redirection of advertising (brainwashing) is required.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by TheBeastie from the other forum

While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before, I like to re-point it out any time I can, that is the problem I see in people who hold up anti-capitalism/pro-socialist signs is that there is a fair amount of proof that socialism isn't even a well-meaning ideology but a deliberate trojan horse used by the worse people known in history to simply grab power through its seductive ideas and like a lot of new regimes end up facilitating a process of killing an incredible amount of people as the only way to solve the regime's problems.

"The Cambodian genocide (Khmer: ហាយនភាពខ្មែរ or ការប្រល័យពូជសាសន៍ខ្មែរ, French: Génocide cambodgien) was carried out by the Khmer Rouge regime under the leadership of Pol Pot, and it resulted in the deaths of approximately 1.5 to 2 million people from 1975 to 1979, nearly a quarter of Cambodia's 1975 population (c. 7.8 million).[1][2][3] The Khmer Rouge wanted to turn the country into a socialist agrarian republic, founded on the policies of ultra-Maoism.[4][5][6] In 1976, the Khmer Rouge changed the name of the country to Democratic Kampuchea. In order to fulfill their goals, the Khmer Rouge emptied the cities and forced Cambodians to relocate to labor camps in the countryside, where mass executions, forced labor, physical abuse, malnutrition, and disease were prevalent. This resulted in the death of approximately 25 percent of Cambodia's total population."
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
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Strict Marxist Communism has often started with mass murder and ended in a string of inefficiency and corruption.
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Democratic Socialism is not this and is already in place in different degrees throughout Europe. I am hopeful that the term "Democratic Socialism" can retain the current check on personal power through voting. "DEMOCRATIC"... Retain the efficiency and innovation of private ownership and a market. But begin to add in appropriate pricing signals to the market to reflect the cost/ value of inputs such as non-renewable resources that are being reduced from future (300,000,000 years) reuse by "entropy" ( a rough application of the concept can be stretched to include strategic elements, ie. Phosphorous, which is now mined from deposits at a certain, but diminishing ore grade, which will eventually become increasingly remote as the concentrated deposits on land are depleted and we are forced to try to get it back from river deltas and oceans after is passes through our food and biological systems). So again, improve the pricing signals for the sources. And phase in pricing signals for the costs of processing the wastes (ie. the other half of a Carbon tax)which are also currently missing. Ecosocial Economists have been telling us this since the 1970's (1800's?) but it is not expedient to right now to growth (then). And we find ourselves in converging crises. Complacency now, then panic.
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The SOCIALISM aspect would refer not to public ownership of everything and its attendant inefficiency, but to additional pro-social levers on the market to make the distribution of social surplus more equitable since right now the owners of production have all of the power to keep a vastly disproportionate amount of the profits (The average CEO of a corporation earns 380 times that of the AVERAGE employee. 1% of Americans take home 24% of the annual earnings and have acquired 40% of the wealth. And the numbers are obviously much more skewed on a world basis). Progressive taxation would provide essentially de facto maximum and minimum incomes with a job guarantee and collective labor bargaining, basic water, food, housing, health care, education, ect. For up to two children per female. Or whatever average the tecnocratic inputs to the decision making process that we already use for many other market decisions comes up with for a sustainable, steady state economy where the goal is to get to a place where nothing is used faster than it can be reused or renewed.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I never said the world was cooling or going into an ice age.

I said, "AGW deniers predicted coming ice age conditions, 20+ years ago.....". Its good to see you list yourself as an AGW denier. AND, some AGW deniers did predict a soon-coming ice age. Even today, AGW deniers like to say that 1970's science predicted a soon-coming ice age, referring to 1970's & 1980's pop science magazine ice age articles. However, while 7 articles back then, referred to coming ice age conditions, 44 Science Papers referred to global warming.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by TheBeastie from the other forum
While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before...

Whodat? Someone from the run-on sentence forum?

Here some weather they can use for climate hysteria.

Just A Car Guy: Result of the floods in Orihuela, Spain. 10" in 12 hours, the worst storm in 140 years.... not that the climate is changing, drastically
At least, I think it's hysterical.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

...So you admit the sun can effect climate.....

"4 oil pans" thinks he caught an AGW advocate in a trap. But there is no AGW advocate trap. The sun has been TSI low for 13(+?) years & Earth biosphere is still heating. AGW deniers jumped on the low TSI, doubling down on their "ice age" predictions. But, AGW deniers are already caught with their "sigh-ants", & will all-the-more be speared, when Sol does return to "normal" TSI levels. Unfortunately, Earth biosphere is also caught.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by redneck

More doom and gloom. .... their “Mission and Vision” statement to know where they stand.

AH, so you need to protect the sexist, racist, xenophobic "don'T rump", who wants to turn the U.S. into a "put-it-in" authoritarian dictatorship. "don'T rump" believes people can exist, despite a destroyed Earth biosphere.

[oil pan 4]

In the 1970s we didn't understand the mechanism causing the late 1970s cool down. Now it's well understood and we even know when it's going to happen.

I didn't catch you in a trap you did that all on your own.

Your whole little cult of climatology is starting to crumble. A cult divided can not stand.
3 things will happen.
They will reconciliate their differences. I think there's no chance of that.
They will continue to fight each other and the movement will self destruct. Given the intolerance and vitriolic personalities involved this seems likely.
The more reasonable majority of believers will realize the insanity and join the deniers out of spite and reason once they realize they have more in common with the deniers. The tiny numbers of cult left will feed off each others crazy and get even more crazy and no one will take the seriously and they are just a joke.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

My water starts at 108 feet now so I have 12 feet of water..... When the well was drilled in the 1960s it had 30 to 40 feet of water in it.

In the 1960's, we shovel-dug a well, that a "water witch" said the earth would be dry at 15 feet.... damp at 15.5 feet... at 16 feet, water would start filling & we would never get to 17 feet, because of in-pouring water.
We began digging. At ten feet the soil was dry & firm. At 15 feet, the soil was dry & firm. At 15.5 feet the soil was.....damp. At 16 feet, a small stream of water came into the dig. We never got to 17 feet, because the water was coming into the well too quickly & we got out of the well.

[litesong]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Your whole little cult of climatology is starting to crumble.

"4 oil pan" continues to huff & puff its "AGW denier sigh-ants".

[freebeard]

Don't feed the troll.