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Old 06-05-2019, 04:25 PM   #5951 (permalink)
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missed,economy,simple ....................

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Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
But what if they have missed something and the heating continues even after the Western World has crippled their economies to reduce the drivers of greenhouse gasses? The seesaw is finely balanced and if something as simple as albedo or a combination of other un-forseen variables still tip us into a heating path, then where are we?

War and pestilence is easily the result of lesser stressors.

A headlong rush into a silver bullet solution (solar, wind ) can leave us wide open to a blind side wallop if we realize we forgot to read the signs more closely.
The greenhouse effect has been known for over a hundred years.There's been a lot of brain-storming since back then.There's probably little that has not come under discussion and consideration.By 1998,the general circulation models began to match observations,plus be able to recreate past anomalies,which is the only reason scientists have any confidence at all in them.
Capitalists have a track record of crippling the economy all by themselves,without climate change or anything else.We've had plenty of 'crisis',crashes,burst bubbles,meltdowns.It's what they do.Some presidential appointees have made sure they happened,even when warned by their listening posts.That absolutely was the case in 2008.
There's no reason for the economy to get hurt.We'll just be buying refrigerators instead of ice boxes.LEDs instead of whale oil lamps.
There will be a redistribution of wealth into emerging technologies,while eclipsed technology like livery stables and buggy whip makers disappear.
If we ceased GHG emissions,and removed CO2 down to pre-industrial levels,there wouldn't be any known mechanism to drive global warming the way it's going now.
We're already seeing civil war as a consequence of food supply collapse,as with Russia (drought) in 2010,and Arab Spring.The Pentagon is very concerned about this sort of thing.
I wish there was a silver bullet.All we have at our disposal is,a 30-year transition off fossil-fuel combustion,onto a market basket of renewable energy sources,continued improvements in efficiency, and storage.It's where the future billionaires and jobs will come from.
There won't be any rush about it,just slow,steady,incremental change.Just the way capitalists like it.
The signs all say something like 'Green New Deal'.
And a careful reading of the Preamble to, the United States Constitution says likewise.

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Old 06-05-2019, 04:32 PM   #5952 (permalink)
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Quote:
But what if they have missed something and the heating continues even after the Western World has crippled their economies to reduce the drivers of greenhouse gasses? The seesaw is finely balanced and if something as simple as albedo or a combination of other un-forseen variables still tip us into a heating path, then where are we?
But what if they have missed something and the heating prevents winter storms and takes the edge off the next Ice Age?

Comments from the fine article:

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As E-P points out the stability of 50/60HZ comes from the mechanical inertia of all the motors and generators spinning in the grid. Originally this was
'free' in the sense that as only spinning generators could make power (on a large scale) you got the inertia whether you wanted it or not.
As you add non synchronous generation the inertia declines. So you have to add inertia somewhere. Real or synthetic.
....
The first of these CAES plants were built to store cheap off peak power from nukes.
If you had a mountain you would use pumped hydro.
The salt caverns are also a geographic feature that can be exploited. No more no less.
At the moment all the seasonal storage of gas in the US (and quite a lot in Europe) is stored in such caverns,
Quote:
'In an article by Sonal Patel in POWER, the author focused on clarifying what that 1,000 MW of renewable power actually represents. The project could store up 1,000 MW of renewable energy year-round. It could be provided to "variability-challenged" Western power markets.

Patel also said that, responding to a request for clarification about the 1,000-MW figure attributed to the facility, which will comprise both storage and power generation, "MHPS said on May 31 ACES is still in the project scoping phase, and that the next step, which entails securing off-taker agreements for power, would determine the mix between renewable hydrogen, CAES, solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC), and flow batteries."

So, renewable hydrogen is not the only technology on tap. Three others are involved to serve the needs of 150,000 households for a year. The ACES initiative will deploy a total of four types of clean energy storage at utility scale. Joining renewable hydrogen are compressed air energy storage; large-scale flow batteries; and solid oxide fuel cells.'
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:44 PM   #5953 (permalink)
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storage

There's also a bit of Flywheel,Railcar storage,Underground gravity,cryogenic,and pumped-heat electrical storage.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:16 PM   #5954 (permalink)
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All good ideas.

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There's also a bit of Flywheel,Railcar storage,Underground gravity,cryogenic,and pumped-heat electrical storage.
And all of them add to the expense of renewables.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:47 PM   #5955 (permalink)
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Added costs for energy storage and tons more transmission lines for infrequent energy sources being mpved to where its in surplus to where its needed is being completely ignored as long as it's riding on the back of fossil fuel power.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:56 PM   #5956 (permalink)
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Look for something cheaper at scale: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=move_a_mountain_for_energy_storage

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The company Energy Cache is pursuing a different option for mountainside energy storage. In their system a series of scoops attached to a ski lift like system move up and down the mountain side. A each end of the transport system the scoop travels over and under a hopper. When passing over the hopper the scoops can depoisit graven into the receptacle and when passing under the hoper they can recieve a load of gravel from the receptical. In the energy storage mode the scoops receive gravel at the bottom of hill and deposit gravel the top of the hill. In the energy production mode this sequence is reversed. The gravel lift is powered by a reverisible generator/motor as is the train engine in the ARES system.
Energy Storage on a Mountain Side
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:49 PM   #5957 (permalink)
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #5958 (permalink)
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Ain't got any mountains around here.
Nearest are between 200 and 240 miles away.

Here is something interesting.
Voters are more worried about drug addiction, cost of health care, fake news, our political system, violence crime than they are worried about climate change.
Accordingto pew research.
https://www.journalism.org/2019/06/0...s-to-be-fixed/
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:25 PM   #5959 (permalink)
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Eric Dollard is still working, he will be at a conference in Idaho demonstrating Tesla technology:


At this time stamp, he shows Ecomodder-style animated charts: https://youtu.be/PkrzXUyvSDg?t=1122

In addition to validating Tesla technology (which he says will be used for communication since power transmission isn't compatible with digital tech), He's working on an earthquake prediction system and an AM crystal radio.
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Old 06-07-2019, 01:38 PM   #5960 (permalink)
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This is what our climate crisis looks like. Things are going to get rougher and rougher - and if we act decisively and in a big way - we might be able to slow the rate of decline.

We have caused a great big problem. A month's worth of rain in 24 hours ...


'I Tried To Stay And Hold On As Long As I Could': Returning To A Flooded Mississippi Home

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