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Old 09-25-2019, 12:22 PM   #7031 (permalink)
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:26 PM   #7032 (permalink)
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Here's a comment I made on another forum which tends to agree with sendler's comment above (quoting is broken on this thread):

I'm slightly inclined toward liberty, but protection of the commons (environment) is among the few legitimate roles of federal government. The only thing is, without a collaborative and binding agreement that clearly defines the problem, the reasonable goals needed to avoid the problem for each country, and a method of enforcement, the whole thing is useless other than claiming some sort of moral superiority. If the US drastically reduced fossil fuel consumption, the price of oil would fall at the expense of our economy. Then the temptation to exploit those low prices by other countries would be too great, and their consumption would increase as well as their economy (fossil fuel consumption and economy are linked).

The problem is much worse than getting people to drive EVs (transportation is 19% of energy use). It's much worse than getting even 1 or 2 big countries to take action that would both reduce fossil fuel consumption and slow economic output. It takes collaboration between allies and enemies alike in all the largest countries agreeing and adhering to clearly defined goals with the threat of violence to enforce those agreements. Anything less is ineffective.

I expect the left to give lip service to the issue, and the right to deny/avoid/downplay the issue altogether. It's political suicide to actually implement effective policy.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:54 PM   #7033 (permalink)
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Gonna start (& have, already?) re-drawing Antarctic shoreline maps:
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-antarc...et-redraw.html
 
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:59 PM   #7034 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The inheritance of RedDevil.
 
Old 09-25-2019, 01:10 PM   #7035 (permalink)
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extent

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck View Post
.







>
The issue is not sea ice extent,it's sea ice volume.Either the messenger is ignorant,stupid,or is intentionally attempting to deceive the audience via intellectual dishonesty.
The 'ancient ice' is virtually gone,except at very high latitude.The annual ice which does form is not long-lived.
The snow which used to cover the ice,and reflected 85% of sunlight, cannot tolerate the new warmer temperatures.
The exposed ice only reflects as little as 70% of the light.
Once this thin ice melts,the open water only reflects 6.5% of the light.
With the ice gone,for every pound of ice lost,each pound of water can gain 144-degrees,instead of just converting from 32-F ice,to 32-F water.
This is where the runaway warming sets in,and methane clathrates melt and out-gas,beginning a double feedback amplification.
We ought to be happy that it will take as long as 2030 before we see a blue ocean event.
There's an expedition which is going to park a ship,tethered to the pack ice near the North Pole,for 352-days,and observe,first-order,winter ice dynamics.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:39 PM   #7036 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Neither is claiming to be expert - they are leading based on reality, and facts.

Who's your expert?
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:42 PM   #7037 (permalink)
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https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019...-levels-rising

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019...sea-level-rise
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:43 PM   #7038 (permalink)
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The similarity I see between Greta and Soph (besides the Autism/Intelligence) is that both present an us vs them message, one which will ultimately be ineffective because people already identifying as "us" are in agreement, while those in the "them" camp will be turned off by the condemning tone of speech. It doesn't move the average in any direction, but extends the extremes.

The whole appeal of Scott Adams and the like is they spend the time to explain their line of reasoning starting at the beginning. It respects the audience by assuming nothing about whether they agree/disagree, but instead give them the opportunity to follow along and decide for themselves if the journey is convincing.

This approach to discussion requires maturity, which requires practice and time.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:46 PM   #7039 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
She has said all along that she will defer to the scientists and encourages (demands) that the world leaders prioritize their suggestions.
.
It is interesting for me to watch her progression of personal understanding in such a short time to now include a realization that a techno-salvation will not be forthcoming and the solution to the several approaching bottlenecks will include a planned degrowth to a new steady state socio-economic system.
.
Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible.
.
Shame on "fairy tails of money and eternal growth"

She has a personal “handler” - “groomer” to coach her.


Luisa-Marie Neubauer

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Neubauer


Quote:
Luisa-Marie Neubauer (21 April 1996, Hamburg[1]) is a German climate activist. In Germany, she is one of the main organizers of the School strike for climate movement, inspired by Greta Thunberg.[2][3] She supports the implementation of Agenda 2030 in Germany and a climate policy that is compatible with the Paris Agreement. Neubauer is a member of Alliance 90/The Greens and the Green Youth.[4] She is involved in various organizations, including those for environmental protection, justice and against global poverty.
This woman is not only her coach-handler-groomer, she also travels along with and is seen at all of her appearances. And if that wasn’t enough, she was raised by parents who are left wing ANTIFA tee shirt wearing environmentalist activists.

Her thoughts were implanted and shaped from a early age.

Greta is a product of “her” environment...

And not the environment itself...





>
 
Old 09-25-2019, 02:56 PM   #7040 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
There's an expedition which is going to park a ship,tethered to the pack ice near the North Pole,for 352-days,and observe,first-order,winter ice dynamics.
Good.

I hope they share their unfettered raw data for all to study.

However, 352 days is not very much time to come to any sort of definitive conclusion.





>

 
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