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Old 02-08-2020, 01:44 AM   #8391 (permalink)
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Yikes! This hits close to home, and it's quasi-ontopic:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oregon+carbon+tax

Scanning the first page (since anything further is 'deep web') it looks like gas goes to $4.00, natural gas up 11%, small businesses fail; and Oregon becomes a failed state like California.
Quote:
Portland Passes "Green New Deal" Carbon Tax, First Of Its ...
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...t-of-its-kind/
Referring to it with happy little buzzwords such as "climate justice," the city of Portland will soon be implementing the first (and hopefully only) "green new deal" carbon tax in the nation, which city "leaders" estimate will suck $60 million out of the [Portland] economy.

Oregon Carbon Tax to create poverty. Just like California ...
https://oregoncatalyst.com/43599-ore...alifornia.html
By Taxpayer Association of Oregon. Oregon is modeling it's carbon Cap-and-Tax plan (also called Cap-and-Invest) on California's Cap-and-Tax scheme which has played a strong role in the state's spike in gasoline, heating and electricity prices which has in turn helped push California into the highest poverty state in America.

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Old 02-08-2020, 02:19 AM   #8392 (permalink)
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Bring on the feces!

It does surprise me that Portland continues to grow despite the leaderships best efforts to make it as unappealing as possible.

My favorite line from the first link;

Quote:
One of the biggest tasks facing this effort is, what are the key metrics of success?
Step 1- Confiscate money
Step 2- Figure out what to do with it later
Step 3- Profit!

Oh well, I've been scheming lately to get some of this subsidy money back in the form of PV and arranged a bid on my parent's property next Thursday. If the numbers work out, I'll move forward with it. If the whole thing works out well for them, I'll consider installing solar at my house. I'm surprised to hear myself saying this after constantly saying how insane solar is here in the rainy valley.

I just found out the 30% federal tax credit also covers the cost of a new roof if you happen to interpret the language of "cost of the supporting structure" to include it. That sweetens the deal. My parents need a new roof right about now, and my house is probably due in the next 5 years.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:42 AM   #8393 (permalink)
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Carbon tax you because China is exploding their CO2 emissions and because of CFC releases that mostly occurred before your time?
If you do enough drugs it might make sense.

The federal tax credit is a rip off. If you go with used panels, used inverter, rack it on a metal roof you can do it for about a $ per watt.
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Old 02-08-2020, 03:23 AM   #8394 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The federal tax credit is a rip off. If you go with used panels, used inverter, rack it on a metal roof you can do it for about a $ per watt.
I contemplated it, but I don't have time, and the 30% federal credit is the minor subsidy. The utility pays 60% for low income homeowners. That should work out to 22% of the total parts/labor cost, plus as I said, they need a new roof.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:06 PM   #8395 (permalink)
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An important question would be: Are you going to go with Tesla glass tiles?

Another would be: Once the carbon tax kicks in, what's the next best state to move to. I'm thinking Boise, Idaho.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:37 PM   #8396 (permalink)
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acceptable

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Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
So at what point is carbon foot print acceptable? Pretty much just living as a normal human being its impossible to not have a carbon foot print.
The target is zero carbon.Then remove much of what's already in the atmosphere.'Normalcy' would creep incrementally to a 'new normal.'
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:38 PM   #8397 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
An important question would be: Are you going to go with Tesla glass tiles?

Another would be: Once the carbon tax kicks in, what's the next best state to move to. I'm thinking Boise, Idaho.
I got an email from Tesla Solar in early January, which was unexpected. Their offer wasn't for the tiles though, but instead for conventional PV arrays. I don't even see an option for their tiles.

https://www.tesla.com/energy/design

I could live in Montana. Seems like a state committed to liberty and avoiding tyranny, plus it's beautiful.

If I'm off grid and EV though, I could avoid much of Oregon's shenanigans. There are ways to leverage a tyrannical system in a way that favors you, but the trick is doing so without also becoming corrupt. At that point it's worth considering taking a stand. Oregon might have a small but vocal/militant group of entitled snowflakes, but I bet there's a larger population of people with a spine. There's only so much institutionalized racism and tyranny those with a spine will allow to persist.

None of that is likely necessary though, because bad ideas eventually collapse on their own since eventually you drive out anyone of character and run out of other people's money. The California exodus is into their 3rd year, and it appears to be accelerating. Perhaps they will wake up and realize that enabling self-destruction is not love.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:56 PM   #8398 (permalink)
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solar forcing

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Still no. There's like 25-30 solar forcing papers out, not including text books.
It's real and not going away.
Okay,it's not solar total irradiance.It's not the Sun's magnetic field and solar wind.And it's not Milankovitch cycles,'cause they take tens of thousand of years to show.We can't predict what solar flares will do.Or coronal mass ejections.There's no record that Earth's magnetophere has ever made any difference with respect to climate.
These 25-30 solar forcing papers are from peer-reviewed,juried,refereed science journals?
NASA never said anything new about what the Parker Solar Probe will be looking into.The new,NASA/European Space Agency/Airbus Solar Polar Orbitter won't be looking at anything that hasn't been mentioned in 30-years.
Can you throw us a bone?
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:59 PM   #8399 (permalink)
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better

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
That's the point I've been making about trying to moralize the issue. Unless someone maintains that zero environmental impact is the only acceptable moral standard, and then immediately kills themselves, every other standard is arbitrary.

I'll point out that the environment for humans has never been better as a result of all of us modifying it. My evidence is that there have never been more people, in better health, living the longest, with the most per capita wealth, than at any other time in history.

Mother Nature is no Garden of Eden. Just wander around out in it with no technology for a few days and see how you do. She's more of a Motha than a mother. We've leveraged our creativity to create environments more hospitable to well-being. Unfortunately, in the process it seems we've neglected mental well-being.
Those are extremely contextual appraisals.The long game could prove all of it completely wrong.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:22 PM   #8400 (permalink)
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Michael Mann

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck View Post
Thatís unless youíre Michael Mann, the source (godfather) of the whole Global Warming movement. Then it seems that those conditions donít apply...

https://principia-scientific.org/bre...ey-stick-mann/





Iím pretty sure a lot of people would like to see Michael Mannís materials straight, no chaser also.

But he refuses.


According to your post. ďIt's some of the most interesting stuff I've ever laid eyes on.Theyíre required to share their data as a condition of publishing,plus provide all their methods.Ē

However, in the past youíve said your fine with Mann keeping his data private.

So which is it ?

Share openly ?

Or

Keep Private ?

The two are mutual exclusive...






>
At the time,Bush-Cheney era,paid prostitutes of the fossil fuel lobby wanted to cook the data,using statistical sleight of hand to misrepresent facts on the ground (in the sky).Scientists could see it coming.And at the time,the peer-reviewed science journals were writing that at that time,no scientist was obligated,under any circumstance to release their data-sets to anyone,as they WERE considered private property of the researcher.No foul!
Arrhenius Svante and the USSR's Venera space probes to Venus are probably the godfathers of global warming,not Michael Mann.If you follow global warming,you already know that the non-linear warming is unfolding exactly like the 'hockey-stick' represented.Yesterday,the West Antarctic Peninsula recorded an all-time,record high of 65-F,beating the 2015 all-time record of 63.5-F.Two heat records in the last 4-years,at the coldest place on Earth.
Presently,if you want to submit a paper to Science or Nature,you're obligated to make all pertinent data available.It's a different time frame than back then.So please view these events in their proper historical context.

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