Dreaming...lean burn manual taller transmission Civic sedan...or get an Insight

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

Electrical noob question...why set the PSU to 14 volts when the battery is designed to run at 12 volts?

Forgot to answer this. A 12v battery is less than 50% charge at 12v, and they don't like being at low charge. At full charge it's higher than 12.8v, and in order to charge it, you need to supply the battery higher voltage than it currently has. I suppose you could probably run the system as low as ~13v and everything would work fine, but it's standard for alternators to provide between 13.8 and 14.2v.

In my ebikes, a "72v" battery is actually around 84-85v when fully charged, and in the 60's when close to empty.

[Stacygifford]

To bring up the early parts of this thread,

The internals of the crx hf trans swap direct into the 92-95 trans and will allow you to keep the hydraulic slave cylinder.

I have a federal crx HF trans (2.95 final drive) laying around if you are interested.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Stacygifford

...

The internals of the crx hf trans swap direct into the 92-95 trans and will allow you to keep the hydraulic slave cylinder.

I have a federal crx HF trans (2.95 final drive) laying around if you are interested.

That should mean the internals would swap into any D-series trans--certainly 6th gen but maybe 7th, too.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

That should mean the internals would swap into any D-series trans--certainly 6th gen but maybe 7th, too.

I'll bet it would fit in a 7th gen trans. Hondas are Legos, after all

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

I get lean burn without a battery, and this is normal for an Insight. If you leave a failed battery in, it can cause lean burn to shut off (depending on the code), but flipping the switch on the IMA system or unplugging it entirely leaves lean burn intact. There isn't a lot of reason to shut off the CEL other than for passing state inspection.

So maybe what I'm seeing is no lean burn with a bad battery still hooked up. I'd think the Insight and HCH would have their batteries hooked up the same way.

Originally Posted by Ecky

As for double clutching, yes, you let the clutch out in neutral, then press it again before putting it into gear. There's one more step - when it's in neutral, you give it some gas to roughly match revs. Basically if the engine will be at 2000rpm in the new gear, rev the engine to 2000rpm in neutral before pressing clutch and dropping it into gear.

The reason this works is that the synchros in the Insight have a design flaw. They normally match internal transmission speed to engine speed when you drop it into gear. They malfunction, so the speeds don't match and the gears grind instead of coming together smoothly. If you roughly match revs when dropping from 3rd to 2nd (just blip throttle in neutral) it goes into gear smoothly because you're doing the work the synchros would otherwise be doing. And, it's only the down-synchro in 2nd (and sometimes 1st), not the up synchros or any of the higher gears.

EOC to a stop can be an issue *sometimes* with this problem. If you shut off your engine while rolling to a stop, but the light turns green and you're still moving a few mph, you can't blip the throttle to match revs and it'll grind when you try to put it in gear because the engine will be turning slower (0rpm) than the gear (more than 0rpm, since the car is still moving). My workaround is to drop it into 3rd and bump start the engine, tap the throttle, then drop it into 2nd (or 1st). If I come fully to a stop I just use my starter.

For what it's worth, I'll be fixing this flaw permanently in my transmission and selling it when I take it out of my car. One could in theory buy a fixed transmission, swap it for theirs, then fix theirs and sell it. Many Insights have had this issue fixed already too, and some don't develop it, but it's common.

Ok so how would you recommend doing EOC in an Insight or HCH, with and also without the battery? With a manual, of course, step by step.

Originally Posted by Ecky

EDIT: I sometimes see decent looking Insights going up for sale on IC, on Facebook groups, or on Craigslist. I'm sure something will come by if that's the route you take. I would not feel bad at all about an HCH though, they're quite solid.

Nahhh, I want an Insight now lol. Go big or go home.

Originally Posted by Ecky

Here's a 65k mile 2000 Insight (best year IMO) for sale for $2200:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/c...669258639.html

Ad doesn't specify but the battery is probably good. It would likely have ~150k miles of operation before the transmission needed any fix. You might also have another 6+ years out of the battery, or could sell it for $6-800.

I WANT. But I won't be able to get one until May next year.

Honestly I'm to the point where like, screw it, I'll get an Insight with a functional battery. If it lasts 5-8 years, good; most people replace cars sooner than that, and I'd just be spending $2000 every 5-8 years for a 100 MPG car.

And if I need to transport people, well they can get their own ride. I only have one seat in my Civic anyway.

How would I store the hybrid battery during my "off months" so that it doesn't get ruined sooner?

Originally Posted by Ecky

Forgot to answer this. A 12v battery is less than 50% charge at 12v, and they don't like being at low charge. At full charge it's higher than 12.8v, and in order to charge it, you need to supply the battery higher voltage than it currently has. I suppose you could probably run the system as low as ~13v and everything would work fine, but it's standard for alternators to provide between 13.8 and 14.2v.

In my ebikes, a "72v" battery is actually around 84-85v when fully charged, and in the 60's when close to empty.

Makes sense, thank you!!

Originally Posted by Stacygifford

To bring up the early parts of this thread,

The internals of the crx hf trans swap direct into the 92-95 trans and will allow you to keep the hydraulic slave cylinder.

I have a federal crx HF trans (2.95 final drive) laying around if you are interested.

Oooooohhhhh.....but....I wanna Insight now

Wouldn't it still be more difficult to install anyway?

[19bonestock88]

If you wanted the really tall final drive, you’d get a manual Gen7 civic and his CRX trans and have a transmission shop swap the guts into the Gen7 case(of course as part of a rebuild)...

I’m with you though, just grab an Insight or HCH1 with a decent battery... drive until the battery fails and then decide what to do... I’m sure the battery would store fine with a grid charger... you know, have somebody trustworthy plug the thing in once a month or so to keep it topped off...

You could delete the battery when it fails or you could replace it... personally I’m curious as to what could happen if you replaced them with a lithium pack of some sort(Headway cells perhaps?) and done an aftermarket AC motor controller, and used an Arduino to die it all in with the IMA system...

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by 19bonestock88

If you wanted the really tall final drive, you’d get a manual Gen7 civic and his CRX trans and have a transmission shop swap the guts into the Gen7 case(of course as part of a rebuild)...

Right on with that, but what you said:

Originally Posted by 19bonestock88

I’m with you though, just grab an Insight or HCH1 with a decent battery... drive until the battery fails and then decide what to do... I’m sure the battery would store fine with a grid charger... you know, have somebody trustworthy plug the thing in once a month or so to keep it topped off...

You could delete the battery when it fails or you could replace it... personally I’m curious as to what could happen if you replaced them with a lithium pack of some sort(Headway cells perhaps?) and done an aftermarket AC motor controller, and used an Arduino to die it all in with the IMA system...

Current plan this May:

- Sell my Civic first
- Buy a 1st Gen Insight w/ good battery for $2500 or less (I know of 3 now for that price or lower) manual transmission of course
- Learn how to drive manual..
- Keep battery
- Wire up kill switch
- Wire up lean burn LED indicator
- Manually adjustable grille block
- I think an air dam hurts MPG due to semi-smooth underbody?
- Improve underbody aero
- Tail extension; maybe a mini-boattail
- Wire up a fake brake light switch to flash people with when I'm EOC and people are creeping up without paying attention
- Semi truck horn <<< seriously!!!
- AC delete
- Passenger seat delete
- Delete as much weight as possible
- Tires @ 60 PSI if RE92s, 70 PSI if cheapo tires
- Rear wiper delete

Goals:

Beat 100 MPG consistently by the end of summer
Beat 60 MPG doing pizza delivery (if I resume my job next summer)

[19bonestock88]

It’s all about how much you could get for your car in its current state, could you sell your Civic and have enough leftover to grab an Insight? It could be cheaper to just mod what you have... not trying to discourage you from getting an Insight or HCH1 though... either would smash your current FE records handily...

[jcp123]

I missed the double clutch question. Double clutch gets so much less fun when it is your living I am a trucker...three-pedal trucks are exclusively unsynchronized. Automatics are simply automated manuals and have little minions in the gearbox do the work for you).

There's two ways to do it. True double clutching goes like this:

Say you are driving down the road at a steady speed. In 5th gear you are running 2000 rpm. If you ran the same speed in 4th gear, you would be at 2500 rpm.

Downshifting from 5th to 4th would have you clutch out of gear, go to neutral, let out the clutch. As you do so, blip the throttle to about 2500rpm, then clutch in again and shift to fourth, then let out.

Trust me, it takes time. The fact that I could drive stick when learning to drive trucks actually hindered me a bit. It was six months of full-time, doing-it-for-a-living driving before I actually got anywhere near comfortable living with an unsynchronized box.

But once you get it, the world is your oyster. There's variations on it like floating your shifts, both up and down, heel-toe shifting, etc. Rev-matching (a bit different from real double-clutching) can make you a master of smooth shifts and save clutch war.

Not that this is terribly relevant to driving anything made in the last 80 years save for 18-wheelers, but I find that as I drive both my rig and my car, both vehicles help inform me a little bit on how to drive the other one better.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by 19bonestock88

It’s all about how much you could get for your car in its current state, could you sell your Civic and have enough leftover to grab an Insight? It could be cheaper to just mod what you have... not trying to discourage you from getting an Insight or HCH1 though... either would smash your current FE records handily...

KBB values my car at slightly over $4000. I bought it for $2900 and replaced timing belt, all fluids, new brakes, general tune up maintenance, etc., basically fixing everything that got me a good deal on the car, and only put 6000 miles on it. Should be able to sell for $3500-$4000. Enough to buy an Insight and have $1000 left over, hopefully.

An extra $1000, cheaper insurance, and 100 MPG, what could be wrong there?