Ford Ecoboost 3-cyl Summer 2013

[Frank Lee]

If anyone is that concerned about weight, there's about 1000 lbs of electronic and mandated safety crap that can be deleted.

[California98Civic]

I think we need to remember that the 1992 Metro 5 speed is rated at 38/40/44 on the current EPA standards. Many of you have proven that's not a good representation of the possibilities. The 1.0L 3-cyl Fiesta will have lots of untapped FE potential for drivers like us. It may out-perform the metro in the hands of a good hypermiler. But crucially, it will also have superior power for towing or hill climbing whenever needed. It'll have superior safety equipment. All around, it is a more advanced car.

Anyone who loves P&G techniques should remember, this car's turbo delivers much of its power in the 1500 rpm range with little delay.

I think it's a wicked-cool little car.

And as Frank says... if you really want less weight there will be half a ton of stuff you might delete.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

If anyone is that concerned about weight, there's about 1000 lbs of electronic and mandated safety crap that can be deleted.

The engines won't run without a lot of the control gear installed. I agree there's a boatload of safety features built into the chassis that add more weight than I think is fully necessary.

Anybody here remember Africar? The idea was to build a sturdy, cheap and safe chassis from epoxy-treated plywood, and power the thing with Citroen mechanicals. Lightweight, economical, repairable in the bush with, literally, some lumber and a hammer.

The hammer might work on the Citroen engine, too. God knows you might want to give it a try.

I could forego about 250 pounds' worth of safety equipment. Government mandated stability controls, really? Do that many cars roll over? Seat belts are great and air bags are too, but do we really need seven air bags per seat?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Nothing wrong, just not as good as aluminum :P

Seriously though, iron block S54 3.2L weighs more than the 4L S65 V8 (which also revs harder). Iron block Mazda B6 1.6L weighs more than a 2.5L 2AR-FE. Aluminum with composite liner or steel liner is the way to go if you want good performance.

How is iron inferior to aluminum? As far as I can tell, the only advantage aluminum has over iron is weight savings.

How much weight does the typical aluminum block save over the iron counterpart?

Originally Posted by elhigh

The engines won't run without a lot of the control gear installed. I agree there's a boatload of safety features built into the chassis that add more weight than I think is fully necessary.

I'm inclined to agree, but then again I don't know how much the safety gear actually costs in terms of dollars or weight. For example, does VSA really add that much weight and complexity to a car that already has a computer and ABS?

Cars will inevitably become safer as the price of technology decreases and manufacturers find ways to implement it in ways that marginally impact weight. Building in a lane holding feature on a car that already has electric steering is a simple matter, for example. Mount a small, lightweight and energy efficient camera to the car, add a lane holding sub-routine to the cars computer, and now the vehicle can pilot itself.

This technology is exciting because it is the beginning of autonomous vehicles. I enjoy the act of driving as much as the next guy, but if we're considering the typical commute style of driving, I'd much prefer to have my car drive me while I focus on something more entertaining or productive.

(wow, just realized how off-topic I wander sometimes)

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

How is iron inferior to aluminum? As far as I can tell, the only advantage aluminum has over iron is weight savings.

How much weight does the typical aluminum block save over the iron counterpart?

Thermal conductivity, more controllable cylinder bore temperature, potentially less knock. Aluminum shortblock vs. iron probably saves like 30% of an engine's weight? Aka usually >100 lbs.

[Frank Lee]

Cast iron makes a hella nice cylinder; it wears like.... iron. Aluminum- not so much.

[Frank Lee]

Aluminum shortblock vs. iron probably saves like 30% of an engine's weight? Aka usually <100 lbs.

Fixed it for ya.

Iron or Aluminum Engines? Debate Continues - Los Angeles Times

For 50-100 lbs., I'd rather toss some other junk.

Thermal conductivity, more controllable cylinder bore temperature, potentially less knock

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html

Car Craft Mag al vs fe head comparo

Google

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Cast iron makes a hella nice cylinder; it wears like.... iron. Aluminum- not so much.

Aluminum makes a terrible cylinder because it gets abraded away. Hence, they are all fitted with cast iron liners or a ceramic composite (increases the material strength too via particle reinforcement), giving you an even better cylinder. I don't have much to throw out of my car besides air conditioning (the day it fails it's gone, I'm not going to replace it), electrohydraulic power steering (don't want to spend money on a manual rack that only barely saves 10 pounds), and various plastics that add up to less than 50 pounds, so I'm pretty glad my engine is only 95kg.

[Frank Lee]

Separate liner vs as cast cyl: more complicated and expensive to manufacture.

I like al engines in some applications, like motorcycles and chainsaws. But where the modest weight differences don't really matter I think fe has more pros than cons.

If my Tempo's cast iron lump was al and saved what- 50 lbs?- that would be a 1.8% reduction in total weight. I might be able to notice the weight loss over the front end with my power steering delete, but if that handling difference was worth the effort I could keep the fe engine, put the batt in the trunk, and end up in about the same place.

My Snapper rider has the al bore B&S and it uses more oil than the Valdez. Can you hone the cylinder and re-ring? No. Can you bore it? No. Not unless you bore it enough to put a proper iron sleeve in... $$$ while overbore in a fe block + oversize piston is cheap in comparison. Sure wish that one was fe.

[user removed]

The advantage of the ecoboost is higher loads at low speeds cruising, higher loads at higher speeds cruising, and economical acceleration if you stay out of boost. I would love to drive a 1.0 ecoboost Fiesta, manual or auto. Averaging close to 46 lifetime in my 2011 with the 1.6 and 6 speed auto, it would be nice to see if I could beat that significantly in a 1.0 2 door Fiesta. Nice if it weighed less but that does not seem to make a lot of difference in my case.

regards
Mech