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Old 04-20-2009, 08:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hydrogen (HHO, Water4Gas)

Please be gentle, I know this is a hotly debated topic.

Check out my fuel log. I've been testing out the Water4Gas product on my Del Sol. First, I installed the "passive" system and achieved 31-32 mpg . Pretty good results, but not GREAT. Then I removed the system and ran all stock (to make sure it wasn't a fluke) and achieved 31-30mpg (WTFLuke?!?! I've NEVER been able to achieve that kind of mileage before since owning the car).

So decided to install the actual HHO generator into my car. I did some quick 30mile round trips to test and achieved 42mpg, but I know that is only preliminary results and it won't necessarily reflect the whole tank mpg. Eventually, I was only able to achieve 31-32mpg . I did more research online and it turns out modern electronically fuel injected cars "defeat" the hydrogen systems by adding more fuel into the injectors because it senses the extra oxygen (engine running lean...add more fuel!!) So I tried a cheap mod on my o2 sensor to try to "trick" the ECU into thinking the engine is running rich (hence lean the fuel mixture). MPG dropped to 27mpg!!

At this point I was about to give up and conclude that the Water4gas was a scam. However, after EVEN MORE research, turns out my cheap O2 mod was too cheap and had to make it more substantial. So I re-did the mod. Also, some other HHO users suggested I tap the Hydrogen into different parts of the intake manifold to see if it will help.

So this weekend, I took a trip down to San Diego to visit my sister. Round trip I drove 177 miles, and I my gas needle is still about 3 "tick" marks above the half tank point (11 gallon tank). So by the looks of it, I'm on track to reach about AT LEAST 35mpg (on regular driving)! (oh btw, the last trip i took down to san diego, i WAS able to achieve 34mpg, but that was with heavy usage of Hypermiling techniques such as EOC, P&G, drafting, etc).

During that trip, I noticed that I was able to maintain a speed of 65-70mph on 18-19in on my vacuum gauge. BEFORE the HHO mod, I had to use 14-15in on my vacuum gauge. So SOMETHING is definitely going on.

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Last edited by jedi_sol; 04-21-2009 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think this is another case of convincing yourself into a box.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sorry, i've never heard of that euphemism before? =)
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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jedi_sol -

If your 02 mod was something like an EFIE (see here), then you may have been getting the MPG benefit from *only* the 02 mod because you are promoting a lean-burn condition.

I'm a believer that you can make HHO work, but this forum isn't the place for this discussion. You're better off going to a dedicated forum like HHOINFO - The International OPEN SOURCE HHO/HOD Builders Network. .

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Old 04-20-2009, 10:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am skeptical because your testing seems like paint splatter on a wall. If you want to compare numbers and have it mean anything you need to do multiple run ABA testing in controlled driving circumstances with the same weather and everything. This means open highways, cruise control, no winds, similar temperates, decently long trips, and multiple trials. And I'm not even all that particular about it.

If you can do some of that, it might mean more. But Popular Mechanics just spent $1800 doing that and decided it didn't work.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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We all know hydrogen will burn in a car engine. But the general consensus is you can't take power from the car to make it work. I personally feel it could be used is some sort of hybrid system where you recover power from the exhaust heat to power the hydrogen generator.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi_sol View Post
Please be gentle, I know this is a hotly debated topic.
It is not hotly debated; but is hotly marketed by people who's true product is doubt.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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isn't the Federal Government prosecuting the people who were selling these (or similar) "FE boosters" as fraudulent?
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southcross View Post
isn't the Federal Government prosecuting the people who were selling these (or similar) "FE boosters" as fraudulent?
Something like that
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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OH BTW, i forgot to mention I stole the plans to build the system off the internet (the same ones they charge $100 for). The i went to Home Depot and built my own system.

So if this system does turn out to be a scam, the only people to profit from me is my local Home Depot.

*SVOboy, yes i understand to conduct a proper scientific experiment there must be extensive amounts of control with as little variables as possible. I dont' have a science lab, but I assure you, I am trying to keep as much control as possible (ie, filling up at the same gas station using the same pump every time, filling up at approximately the same ambient temperature, installed a vacuum gauge to try to keep my driving style consistent, I'm a delivery driver so most of my mileage is all highway).

Here is a quick rundown of my results:
1st tank: 54*F, "passive system" = 313.6m on 10.0g = 31.36mpg
2nd tank: 57*F, "passive system" = 330.9m on 10.14g = 32.63mpg
3rd tank: 56*F, "passive system" = 309.3m on 9.79g = 31.59mpg
4th tank: 56*F, ALL STOCK = 281.5m on 8.97g = 31.38mpg
5th tank: 68*F, ALL STOCK = 328.0m on 10.36g = 31.66mpg
6th tank: 71*F, ALL STOCK = 241.6m on 8.08g = 29.90mpg
7th tank: 60*F, "Active system" = 312.2m on 9.85g = 31.69mpg
8th tank: 58*F, "Active system" = 111.9m on 4.02g = 27.83mpg

(*I know these results don't seem all that impressive, but please see my fuel log for more detailed information)

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Last edited by jedi_sol; 04-21-2009 at 08:38 PM..
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