Just rode in a VOLT!

[autoteach]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

What do you think they should be?
If you're going to compare the two then you should use the same (unadjusted) figures, which is ~39/48mpg for the 2011 civic, pretty close to the 41/54mpg for the old civic, and it weighs twice as much, accelerates faster, has more in the way of creature comforts, and all those fancy emissions controls too.
There are a few cars that get 50mpg using the same metric the old civic pulled 50mpg, but there aren't many that can pull 40mpg on the adjusted EPA tests w/o being hybrids.

Well, what would I want electrics to be, or politicians? I think I will go with the hybrid/electrics...I just dont think that the savings in fuel over a well designed vehicle outweigh the pollution of production. I am talking about the chain from mining to driving. It is displaced pollution, and unregulated.

Ok, you make a great point on the new civic with uncorrected numbers (unfortunately I dont know what the correction rates are). You also support my arguments, its bigger, heavier, accelerates faster, has more "creature" comforts... What is necessary? GPS, heated seats, or a car that is more efficient?

And you are right, there aren't many that meet the 50, let alone 40mpg w/o being hybrids. Should that be the case? I dont think so.

[robchalmers]

Going back to the volt for a sec (i know, ON topic, weird huh!)

I'm not gonna search back through 13 pages of posts but i was told in a round about way not to compare Volts with Euro diesels - and then i saw a thread on here about the Cruze XFE. now its quoted FE is better than you can extract from the Volt, has a longer range, uses the same basic floor pan, same basic engine (except the Cruze even has a turbo bolted on) and will be sitting on the same sales lot at the Chevy dealer.... and I've got a feeling its going to be a lot less than $41,000...... sub $19k IIRC

how many miles of driving on electric until you've re-couped $22,000?


are you guys taxed on Co2 yet?

[cfg83]

robchalmers -

No CO2 tax yet. It's not even published on the window sticker.

CarloSW2

[robchalmers]

to answer my own question

$22000 / 2.876gal (gasbuddy.com)
=7649.513 gals

Urban MPG, where the Volt would be on electric say 20MPG for joe public?

=7649.513*20
= 152,990.3 miles :O

[bennelson]

When I went for the ride in the Volt,

The tech said that the Volt was built on a certain platform (I don't remember which) he said that was the same platform as another couple of cars. The only one on the list that I remember him saying was the Cruze.

Physically, the Cruze and Volt look very similar.

Again, I do think that comparing the Volt to any standard gas car is apples to oranges, but if you are going to do that, the Cruze is the right car to compare it to.

[euromodder]

The Opel Ampera / re-badged Volt / is on sale in Europe - for a whopping 42900 EUR or 58800 USD, with deliveries from fall 2011.


(For comparison, the Prius is 30100 EUR)

[cfg83]

bennelson -

Originally Posted by bennelson

When I went for the ride in the Volt,

The tech said that the Volt was built on a certain platform (I don't remember which) he said that was the same platform as another couple of cars. The only one on the list that I remember him saying was the Cruze.

Physically, the Cruze and Volt look very similar.

Again, I do think that comparing the Volt to any standard gas car is apples to oranges, but if you are going to do that, the Cruze is the right car to compare it to.

It's the Cruze, which is the GM Delta platform. It's also the platform for the Opel Astra :

GM Delta platform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Delta was General Motors' compact front-wheel drive automobile and crossover SUV platform, a successor to the GM T platform; it also replaced GM J platform and the Z platform used by the Saturn S-Series. The platform debuted in the 2003 Saturn Ion. Vehicles of this platform generally carry the symbol "A" in the fourth digit of their VINs. The architecture was developed by Opel in Germany.

CarloSW2

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by euromodder

No need to put yourself in danger, it's (more or less) been done for you

Fifth Gear put a new Renault Modus (2004-present / Nissan Note lookalike) against an old tank, the Volvo 940 (1991–1998).

Fifth Gear – Renault Modus v Volvo 940 Crash Test | You Tube Videos - Collection of Videos from YouTube.


So in addition to polluting more, the older cars are also far less safe.
And that's with a car that was considered very safe in its day.
A lesser or smaller car from that era would be even worse when compared to today's small cars.


Think about how much you really want to risk to get better FE.

This post doesn't make any sense^^^

1995 Volvo 940

The volvo is about 3000lbs the modus is about 2600lbs. So on a per cubic foot basis the Modus weighs more.

next tests like this one don't prove a lot; that type of impact even when the cabin survives is usually going to put you in a world of disability and that type of crash is relatively rare compared to side blows and lower speed impacts.

Also that paticular impact and paticular set of cars is a unique situation change it a little and you might see different consequences.

Cheers
Ryan

[robchalmers]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

This post doesn't make any sense^^^

1995 Volvo 940

The volvo is about 3000lbs the modus is about 2600lbs. So on a per cubic foot basis the Modus weighs more.

next tests like this one don't prove a lot; that type of impact even when the cabin survives is usually going to put you in a world of disability and that type of crash is relatively rare compared to side blows and lower speed impacts.

Also that paticular impact and paticular set of cars is a unique situation change it a little and you might see different consequences.

Cheers
Ryan

Side impacts wise the Modus does better than the volvo or even the later S.I.P.S volvos. And it won't leave you in a world of disability because of the force limiter in the seat belt etc. NCap test for torso-internal decceleration (organ force) as part of there rating and the Modus Like other 5star cars is very good at limiting the force applied to you - you'll feel it don't get me wrong!

@Ben - I know Its like apple and oranges but at the end of the day they have to sell the car and Buyers normally vote with their wallets. Unless they have a dispossable income and who outside of China has one of those!!!
The other thing i'd worry about is resale, as with anything touting itself as frontline techIt'll be superceded VERY quickly which is going to hurt residuals and finance packages based on a end term car value. I mean as soon as the Gen3 prius came out Gen2 values dived round here (to the point where I was almost tempted!)

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

This post doesn't make any sense^^^

You mean it doesn't fit your opinions.

The volvo is about 3000lbs the modus is about 2600lbs. So on a per cubic foot basis the Modus weighs more.

And what has density really got to do with it ?

next tests like this one don't prove a lot;

It proves a great lot, but it looks like you just don't want to see or hear any of it.

The smaller, lighter but far more modern car does far better in a crash than an old (mid 90s) Volvo tank.
Repeat with a similar vintage Metro, Civic or Corolla, and the situation will look even bleaker for its driver and passengers.

that type of impact even when the cabin survives is usually going to put you in a world of disability

If you're in the big Volvo, surely.
If you survive at all.

In that small modern econobox, you might break a leg and get some assorted bruises.

that type of crash is relatively rare compared to side blows and lower speed impacts.

"That type of crash" with partial frontal overlap, happens to be a standard situation that's tested by all manufacturers and happens time and again on the road.
The setting and speed weren't chosen by accident.

They only didn't crash the cars against a solid wall @ 40mph, but slammed them into one another for direct comparison.