OBII Smarter than us?

[pgfpro]

So are you going to run a piggyback system on your Ford?

I take it your going to do testing with your vapor system? It should be interesting.

[racprops]

I hope to do so.

And thanks to what I learned here it is more likely to work.

Rich

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by racprops

Come on you know what I mean..darn spell police, I go quietly Officer, Darn SPELL CHECKER...

AND just what is/are Tchotchkes??Can't you spell what you putting me down with?

Rich, I don't suppose you see the irony in those two comments?
- I would strongly recommend you take responsibility for your own spelling rather than depending (and blaming) a machine. Don't allow the machine to make you look like a fool.
- If you don't know what a word means, take the responsibility to look it up! Don't blame the person writing it for putting you down before you follow through on your own responsibility to learn what it means; that is just plain rude. And yes, it is spelled right.

Originally Posted by racprops

And again any business that involves BUYING something and them trying to SELL it is not easy.

You are right; it is not easy. But compared to the hurdles you have described for creating a fuel savings device (OBDII, suppressors, the government, etc), reselling existing stuff is a walk in the park. If you know automotive stuff, then resell automotive stuff. If you know Ford stuff, then resell Ford stuff. Hundreds of thousands of people do it successfully. Don't blame the scammers for making it sound like you can make lots of money without any work... any reasonably intelligent person knows that's not true. It does take work, but it would be A LOT less work than what you are talking about tackling, with A LOT fewer challenges.

Originally Posted by racprops

The first thing I learned is FIND a NEED that you personally have the skills and the tools to FILL.

As John Wayne used to say in a couple of his films, "A man has to know his limitations."

I know some of mine and of the world and what I can do.

This is something I might be able to do.

So stick with what you KNOW. You KNOW you can't fool the OBDII ECMs since they have so many controls. And you KNOW you can't sell something "honestly" that will screw up the emissions. And you KNOW that if you sell something that has the potential for screwing up the emissions, you'll have to certify that it doesn't. And THEN, after all that time and money spent, you KNOW you're going to have to restrict the profit. And the number of units you can sell, because you KNOW it's not just the profit... there must be a limit to the number of units you can sell before the suppressors come after you. Which means you CAN'T get into a deal with big company like Dutchman; your documented case with Ray and Dell proved that, right?

So with all these hurdles which completely stack the deck against you, why bother? There are thousands of other automotive related things that will get you much better return on your time and effort than this idea of a fuel savings device.

[wickydude]

Wow. I've just been reading this thread with rising eyebrows.

$20.000?
That could have gotten you many things, like a more efficient car, or some courses in physics and engine design. And left change for something like this:
Max Energy Econ - Hypertech (example, not necessarily suitable for your car, many others out there on the web).
And even these will not get you 100mpg on your car.

I'm also very curious how you would get that vapor you mentioned turned into power without generating heat. Burning any fuel is an exothermic reaction, which by definition generates heat. Which gives expansion, which drives the piston.
It is down to energy balance. 1 gallon of petrol contains a certain amount of energy. You can freeze that gallon or vaporize it, it will still contain the same amount of energy.
That energy will propel a certain amount of mass, like a car, over a certain distance, given other factors like friction etcetera etcetera.

Why is it that you have blown $20000 on items from people whose stories you take as is, while you question almost everything the members on here tell you?

It's been said before: there is no magic obd2 trick box that will make a stock Marquis do a genuine 150mpg on standard petrol. And there never will be.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Rich, I don't suppose you see the irony in those two comments?
- I would strongly recommend you take responsibility for your own spelling rather than depending (and blaming) a machine. Don't allow the machine to make you look like a fool.
- If you don't know what a word means, take the responsibility to look it up! Don't blame the person writing it for putting you down before you follow through on your own responsibility to learn what it means; that is just plain rude. And yes, it is spelled right.

If I throw out a word or name of something that a common man will not be exasperated to know i will provide a link or some way to explain it so your the rude person.

And again get off my case, I am not take this to have it proof read, we are just talking here..so you again being rude for making a fuss over my spell checker and my own spell mistakes...

You are right; it is not easy. But compared to the hurdles you have described for creating a fuel savings device (OBDII, suppressors, the government, etc), reselling existing stuff is a walk in the park. If you know automotive stuff, then resell automotive stuff. If you know Ford stuff, then resell Ford stuff. Hundreds of thousands of people do it successfully. Don't blame the scammers for making it sound like you can make lots of money without any work... any reasonably intelligent person knows that's not true. It does take work, but it would be A LOT less work than what you are talking about tackling, with A LOT fewer challenges.

Have you been selling on eBay or any market place, are you self imployed, making a living by your wits??

Every product that I can buy is already got hundreds of OTHER seller trying to sell it. This is fine when your buying, I take full advantage of this act and hunt and haggle with sells to get the best prices...on the internet 9 times out of 10 you can find a LOWER price.

And the people and companies with deep pockets can buy large amounts of things and get lower prices: Hear of Walmart?? The death of the local Mom and Pop store/shops.

Dude what you saying is so unreal I can hardly believe your saying it.


So stick with what you KNOW. You KNOW you can't fool the OBDII ECMs since they have so many controls. And you KNOW you can't sell something "honestly" that will screw up the emissions. And you KNOW that if you sell something that has the potential for screwing up the emissions, you'll have to certify that it doesn't. And THEN, after all that time and money spent, you KNOW you're going to have to restrict the profit. And the number of units you can sell, because you KNOW it's not just the profit... there must be a limit to the number of units you can sell before the suppressors come after you. Which means you CAN'T get into a deal with big company like Dutchman; your documented case with Ray and Dell proved that, right?

Wrong...

So with all these hurdles which completely stack the deck against you, why bother? There are thousands of other automotive related things that will get you much better return on your time and effort than this idea of a fuel savings device.

To make and sell something that I alone can do (or I am not got 10,000 other guys doing it) seems the best way I can go.

I can shoe string it up, Build one and put it into a car and take orders from the demo.

Build say 5 and sell them to the orders and then sell 20 and then 100...

And I can do this at my own speed and time. Out of my own home based work shop.

I once bought 100 broken PC Monitors...only to find within a year that no one what them everyone want the newer flat screen LED monitors. I had to junk over 1/2 of them.

Been there done that and NO THANKS.

Rich

[racprops]

Originally Posted by wickydude

Wow. I've just been reading this thread with rising eyebrows.

$20.000?
That could have gotten you many things, like a more efficient car, or some courses in physics and engine design. And left change for something like this:
Max Energy Econ - Hypertech (example, not necessarily suitable for your car, many others out there on the web).
And even these will not get you 100mpg on your car.

First that was over the 5 months time and it is out of pocket costs and lost income from my other job while I tried that.

Second I have already tried the VOLO Version of this idea, no go.

I'm also very curious how you would get that vapor you mentioned turned into power without generating heat. Burning any fuel is an exothermic reaction, which by definition generates heat. Which gives expansion, which drives the piston.
It is down to energy balance. 1 gallon of petrol contains a certain amount of energy. You can freeze that gallon or vaporize it, it will still contain the same amount of energy.
That energy will propel a certain amount of mass, like a car, over a certain distance, given other factors like friction etcetera etcetera.

God your gave them eyes but the don't read.

Here is the basic idea:

FI injects a fine spray of gas droplets. In the combustion chamber a percentage of these droplets convert to vapor (BECAUSE only vapor can burn) as this conversion takes time (even in nanoseconds) only about 20 to 30% convert IN TIME to make the real power stroke.

The rest burn AFTER the power stoke, even as the exhaust valve opens and on down into the exhaust pipe and so much is left over we have to run Cats to burn it. (PS this is the major reason we need a cooling system.)

Now what could happen if you only let in AS VAPOR the needed 30% of gas??

What if it really works and the car burns this vapor 100% and all of that 100% burn is done only on the power stroke??

Why is it that you have blown $20000 on items from people whose stories you take as is, while you question almost everything the members on here tell you?

Because at the time A) I believed their climes..B) it seemed like a great idea, C) I did not know better...

I don't disbelieve what the members have said, I simply dug deeper into answers to my questions, and because most of what the members do for MPG is not sell-able to Joe Blow down the street.



It's been said before: there is no magic obd2 trick box that will make a stock Marquis do a genuine 150mpg on standard petrol. And there never will be.

Well I don't expect that BUT say 60 MPG (100% better0 or even 90 MPG..(150%)under special condition's like a 70 MPH cruse on a level highway with no wind..

Rich

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by racprops

Funny I could have swarm they displayed Dinosaurs (bones) when I visited there in the 80s...some 25 to 30 years ago, so my memory is off a little...

More than a little :-)

But the concept may be still sound, how many thousands of Dinosaurs would it have taken to create that tap pit, if oil and tar are really Dinosaurs??

First, I don't believe anyone with even a pretense of knowledge thinks that oil & tar are really the remains of dinosaurs. But just for fun, and as an exercise in math, let's imagine that's really where oil comes from. So, basic fact: the first dinosaurs evolved about 230 million years ago, and became extinct 65 million years ago, so that's about 165 million years of dinosaurs.

Dinosaurs came in a range of sizes, but let's take the American buffalo as a good approximation. They weigh about 1 ton, live about 40 years, and in pre-Columbian times there were about 100 million in North America. So that means that each year, North America produced 2.5 million tons of buffalo. Worldwide that's 10 million tons/year (completely neglecting the oceans). So there's a potential 1,650,000,000,000,000 tons of just buffalo.

But of course oil doesn't come from dinosaurs, it's mostly from plant life (algae & plankton), and like coal, much of it formed in the even earlier Carboniferous Period. In the case of coal, we know this is true, because sometimes entire fossilized forests are found in coal deposits: Springfield Coal Fossil Forest Is Largest Ever Discovered (PHOTOS)

Dude lighten up...this is a conversation, not hard science..I am working off the top of my head, and not with a research grant or tech help..or a fact checker...

You think any of the rest of us have research grants? (Well, at least not for this.) We're just working off general knowledge, such as anyone should have gotten starting in elementary school. As for fact checking, ever heard of Google?

[racprops]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

More than a little :-)



First, I don't believe anyone with even a pretense of knowledge thinks that oil & tar are really the remains of dinosaurs. But just for fun, and as an exercise in math, let's imagine that's really where oil comes from. So, basic fact: the first dinosaurs evolved about 230 million years ago, and became extinct 65 million years ago, so that's about 165 million years of dinosaurs.

Dinosaurs came in a range of sizes, but let's take the American buffalo as a good approximation. They weigh about 1 ton, live about 40 years, and in pre-Columbian times there were about 100 million in North America. So that means that each year, North America produced 2.5 million tons of buffalo. Worldwide that's 10 million tons/year (completely neglecting the oceans). So there's a potential 1,650,000,000,000,000 tons of just buffalo.

But of course oil doesn't come from dinosaurs, it's mostly from plant life (algae & plankton), and like coal, much of it formed in the even earlier Carboniferous Period. In the case of coal, we know this is true, because sometimes entire fossilized forests are found in coal deposits: Springfield Coal Fossil Forest Is Largest Ever Discovered (PHOTOS)



You think any of the rest of us have research grants? (Well, at least not for this.) We're just working off general knowledge, such as anyone should have gotten starting in elementary school. As for fact checking, ever heard of Google?

I will only say one thing.

Do you treat you friends like this?

I did know this was a test and I would be scored on it.

Rich

[wickydude]

Originally Posted by racprops

Well I don't expect that BUT say 60 MPG (100% better0 or even 90 MPG..(150%)under special condition's like a 70 MPH cruse on a level highway with no wind..

Rich

Somewhere in one of the first posts you mention 100-200mpg as your goal??

Could you perhaps point to a link with scientific data proving that most of the fuel is burned after the powerstroke and in the exhaust?

As to that VOLO thing, it did not work so now you want to do the same thing? As in proving that it does not work?

Seriously man, there are a lot of people worldwide working all day every day on improving the ICE, squeezing every Joule of energy out of the fuel and trying to turn it into motion. I have trouble seeing how you can do better than them in the backyard shed, without their resources.

I just consulted my crystal ball, and it showed you will not get 100% improvement with a homegrown piggyback thingy on a stock marquis with standard fuel.

But hey, everyone needs a hobby.

[wickydude]

Oh, and whenever someone makes claims, it falls to them to substantiate those claims with evidence.