Old to fuel-saving New to here

[sarguy01]

HyCO-2DT Installation Instructions - This is your product, correct?

I googled HyCO and found this. Basically, the HyCO is a can that is plumbed into the fuel return line. Then, using compressed air, the vapors that collect in the top of the can are forced into the intake manifold, correct? Left over gas is then sent back to the fuel tank.

This system is used to add fuel vapor into the intake manifold. I am assuming, from what you talk about on your website, is that the fuel vapor is burnt and less fuel will be injected via the fuel injection system, hence the huge gains.

Questions...

How do you regulate the amount of fuel vapor going into the engine? Is it the same amount at all times? An engine needs a different amount of fuel at idle then at 3,000 rpm under load. How does the HyCO regulate the amount of fuel vapor needed?

Why does the EFIE need to be used if the engine is still burning gasoline? Am I incorrect to say that burning gasoline vapors are the same as burning gasoline coming out of a fuel injector? Wouldn't the O2 sensor read this the same?

How do you know that the engine is being run off of the vapors? How much vapor is produced? Does the EFIE simply lean the engine out and allow for these huge MPG gains?

Is it safe to have a homemade can full of gas in my engine compartment?

[XYZ]

Let’s review George’s actual posts and ask some questions.

Post #22:

For anyone who wants to give the EFIE a real try, I'm here now and I'm willing to help.

EFIEs are now being sold by multiple people in various versions. Be sure to get a version that's appropriate for your vehicle. My EFIEs are optimized for the original narrowband oxygen sensors, up to about year 2000 (and beyond in a lot of cases like both my 2003 RV on an E450 chassis and 2008 Aveo still use narrowband O2 sensors).

That sounds like a sales pitch, not a give away.

#37:

It works, it's been proven thousands of times. I've helped hundreds of my customers do it. You need to stop thinking if it works and start thinking how to apply it to your ecomodder project. Thats what I'd like to help you with.

The phrase “help you with” implies buying your product, doesn’t it?

#38:

My customers didn't care why they got higher mileage (most got at least 25% higher mileage and I was able to double mileage of about 20% of them), they only cared that it worked. I've built my business with a 100% satisfaction guarantee from day one. So you are unlikely to 'convince' me that I'm wrong, since I can help you prove (for yourself) that I'm right.

Again, your idea of "help" will mean buying your units. The burden of proof is yours, not ours.

#56:

I'm multi-skilled and have accomplishments that NASA can't duplicate (like an electrolyzer design, independently tested, at near 100% Faraday efficiency). My knowledge and skills are both horizontally and vertically integrated. I researched, designed, manufactured and sold hundreds of them worldwide. They are not only efficient, but half the weight and size of the 'competition', quiet, rugged, user-friendly, designed to last 20 years minimum, easy to maintain and repair. It's better than the design that William Rhodes originally patented (he was a rocket scientist that not only worked for NASA, had over 100 patents and worked on retainer for the government up until he died in his 90s). I had my design on the market before I ever knew Mr. Rhodes and we became very good friends.

Again, this amounts to a promotional ad for products you are selling. NASA is not in the vehicle modification business, but your comparison implies that you are smarter than their scientists are.

#58:

Only several thousand people I call customers What they care about is that it saves them fuel. $350 is not much for 25% to 100% gain in fuel economy. My HyCO 2DT costs $3000 and will save a trucker a guaranteed $60,000 over 5 years time... They call that a good investment.

NO! With the HyCO 2A, in normal application, your fuel system stays intact and functional. You use an EFIE and MAP Enhancer to adjust for the extra oxygen and lowered intake manifold air pressure. The HyCO 2A does NOT produce enough vapors to 'run your engine on vapor' so unfortunately you wouldn't be able to remove your throttle plate.

Not only is this a sales promotion, it reveals the price of the more expensive unit.

Please have some patience on the 'real results'. First, I've given you all nothing but real results that I've achieved in the past. Second, I'm away from my home on an extended writing sabbatical. I'm quite happy to have anyone check out my project vehicles once I get home and they are on the road. This will happen during this summer.

Why did you decide to begin discussion of your products now in February, on this list? You claim to be away from home until next summer. Your being away from your cars provides an excuse that you think is acceptable for not providing any tangible proof of testing your claims.

#70:

Yes, I ABSOLUTELY maintain that I'm NOT here to promote my technology or website! This is getting a bit old guys... Obviously you do not know me and I can understand some scepticism because I AM a fuel saving professional with a vested interest in people buying my products.

That’s an admission that is contradictory. It amounts to saying “I’m not here to sell anything, but I AM selling things”.

But you guys really don't 'get it'. For me there is a potential here for MUCH MORE than money. I'm lonely. I've been alone for many years. I want someone I can talk to about the things that matter to me. This website offers that potential.

“MUCH MORE than money”… Like free publicity and promotion?

When anyone says that's it not about the money, you can rest assures that it IS about the money.

This Aveo is the first new vehicle we've ever owned and, in addition to not taking any chances with the warranty, she wanted to see a solid baseline before anything was done to it. BTW, we've decided having a 'new' vehicle isn't worth it, for us. I've been fighting with GM for years now, because the car does NOT get anywhere closer to the sticker mileage and, because I'm a mechanic with a scan gauge and the service manuals, I've gotten them to correct a few things. I want that car to be 'certified' the best that GM can do, so there's no question my technologies improved it. I have the fuel mileage records from day one.

It's now getting close to time for me to work on it (the warranties are expiring), so I expect to do some mods this summer.

Now you say “in addition to not taking any chances with the warranty”. But you steadfastly insisted that nothing you produce or install would void a warranty. So why the precaution? That too is contradictory.

Besides, your Aveo is a 2008. This is 2014. The five year warranty is expired. So who do you think you are kidding with the excuses and rationalizations?

#73:

Nothing I suggest will potentially damage a vehicle in any way. In all the years I've modified vehicles I've never voided a warranty.

You just said that you aren’t taking any chances with the warranty (which no longer exists). The contradiction is glaring. Why should we believe you?

#74:

I so wish I could do the EPA testing, but when I looked into it (and CARB testing) I just couldn't afford the time or money to do it. My products HAVE been tested, by various government agencies, but they won't tell me the results. The tests were done to see if they would prosecute me for fraud, and the result was that the 'case' was dropped (all 7 times so far). If I'm allowed to continue here, I'll endeavor to generate proof that is independent of myself.

This indicates that you admit being investigated “7 times so far” for possible fraudulent claims. That’s enough to raise everyone’s eyebrows, isn’t it?

#73:

As for proof sufficient for you fellas, suggestions on how to do that please... And remember that I'm not a millionaire, I'm a middle class guy like most of you likely are. When making suggestions, please consider ways that YOU could do it.

Okay, George. Since you want so much to convince us and since you are not here to sell anything, here’s a way to prove yourself. Send all of your products (the units themselves) and their instruction books (two sets of them each), to both moderators of this list. Let them do an independent study of the results of before and after your units are installed. Probably most everyone on this list would trust the founders of this list to report objective results.

The final question is: Would you trust the founders of this list to verify your claims?

If not, I think we are headed towards the Unicorn Corral.

[XYZ]

Meanwhile, if you want a clearer description of how George's unit is installed, google this :

HyCO 2A Manual (preview)

[iveyjh]

"If not, I think we are headed towards the Unicorn Corral."

From just sitting back and observing how you guy treat new people that come on here with ideas different than your own, they're already destined for the "Unicorn" corral. You guys, not all of you, are about the most rude people I have ever seen. You are like a bunch of buzzards circling around a carcass. Behaviour such as this discourages anyone with different ideas from making any posts.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by iveyjh

"If not, I think we are headed towards the Unicorn Corral."

From just sitting back and observing how you guy treat new people that come on here with ideas different than your own, they're already destined for the "Unicorn" corral. You guys, not all of you, are about the most rude people I have ever seen. You are like a bunch of buzzards circling around a carcass. Behaviour such as this discourages anyone with different ideas from making any posts.

I can assume I am one of the ones that you think is being rude. Well, maybe I am but I am not trying to be. We are eight pages into a thread and have NOTHING valid to remotely prove the huge claims George is making. He writes a lot but has yet to share the details of his ideas. He has only talked about his website and vaguely mentioned his products.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by iveyjh

From just sitting back and observing how you guy treat new people that come on here with ideas different than your own, they're already destined for the "Unicorn" corral. You guys, not all of you, are about the most rude people I have ever seen.

Different ideas are welcomed. Unsupported claims are met with suspicion, insistence on the validity of the claims without proof is met with hostility. You did notice that there's a lot of reporting of test results in this forum, didn't you? You did notice that there's an uncommonly high level of repeatability in the testing methods, didn't you? Generally people who claim results in this venue do so with a fair amount of uncluttered, clearly written DATA - not information, DATA (there is a significant difference and I hope I don't have to explain it) to back or disprove their claims.

And indeed, there have been disproofs. More than one participant has come back and reported, "Well, that didn't work. Here's what I learned."

It isn't rude to expect reasonable substantiation of claims. It is extraordinarily rude to expect a forum that is founded on a premise of incremental, measurable experimentation and confirmation of results to simply accept claims as presented as "fact."

If he didn't want to provide proof, records, or participate more fully in the experimentation process, he should never have joined.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by iveyjh

"If not, I think we are headed towards the Unicorn Corral."

From just sitting back and observing how you guy treat new people that come on here with ideas different than your own, they're already destined for the "Unicorn" corral. You guys, not all of you, are about the most rude people I have ever seen. You are like a bunch of buzzards circling around a carcass. Behaviour such as this discourages anyone with different ideas from making any posts.

Oh, you are absolutely correct. According to you we are the RUDEST people imaginable! Some of us question and ask for proof - just as scientists and those who have academic rigor do. That's what determines the difference between a belief and a fact.

But after reading all of George's many long-winded and promotional posts in this thread he is hardly discouraged or dissuaded. So your feeble defense of him doesn't square with reality. George is not offended. Only you are.

No one has suggested that George be banned or silenced. That's up to the moderators to determine, if or whether or not that is appropriate. But if George can't prove his claims, then he deserves to be marginalized. He can say whatever he wants, but with no proof we may consider it lacking in credibility. (Hint: that is what being relegated to the Unicorn Corral means.)

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by XYZ

No one has suggested that George be banned or silenced.

I didn't suggest it, but I suspect the pump is primed. And frankly unless the tenor of George's posts changes significantly, I won't be sorry if he is banned.

I don't come here to be converted to someone's religion, I have a religion.

[iveyjh]

So your feeble defense of him doesn't square with reality. George is not offended. Only you are.

Reread what I said

From just sitting back and observing how you guy treat new people that come on here with ideas different than your own, they're already destined for the "Unicorn" corral. You guys, not all of you, are about the most rude people I have ever seen. You are like a bunch of buzzards circling around a carcass. Behaviour such as this discourages anyone with different ideas from making any posts.

Show me where I defended George just once, never did. All I did was point out the bad behavior of the welcoming committee.

[MetroMPG]

We've had a few people being testy or brusque (some who may not have intended it to come across that way, others maybe they did), but I think things have been civil for the most part.

Honestly, I expected this thread to go off the rails, and (90 posts later) it really hasn't.

Originally Posted by XYZ

The final question is: Would you trust the founders of this list to verify your claims?

Ha! No thanks! I don't seem to have enough time to do my own projects, never mind verifying other people's stuff!