Old to fuel-saving New to here

[elhigh]

For the sake of your continued welcome here, George, this is my suggestion:

We get that you are an HHO experimenter and highly dedicated to it. That's cool with us, if there were no enthusiasts this site would be empty.

We get that you want us to believe you. That's cool too. Doubters need to be convinced but the neat thing about that is that if you can convince the doubters, you have a good thing going. Our thresholds are much higher than other people's and many of us here are pretty advanced scientists. Not me, I'm just a handyman...but I test really well.

So your best bet to keep the conversation friendly and not find yourself on the wrong end of the banhammer - for I think I hear it being pulled off the shelf - would be to significantly alter your practices:

1) No more defending your results. If they need defending, they aren't results. Facts require no defense.

2) Shorter posts that cut to the chase.

3) Do a straight up, head-to-head comparison. Two identical engines, one with HHO and the other as assembled from the factory. Then for every alteration made to the HHO engine, replicate that too on the control, but without the HHO. Let's see how much difference the HHO makes to the performance with literally all other factors being equal.

I'm done.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWiseman

Only several thousand people I call customers What they care about is that it saves them fuel. $350 is not much for 25% to 100% gain in fuel economy. My HyCO 2DT costs $3000 and will save a trucker a guaranteed $60,000 over 5 years time... They call that a good investment.



During the next few months I'll be describing and demonstrating all my fuel saving technologies, the HyCO 2A is one of my most practical. I'll be telling you all how to build your own (after you see it working on my vehicles) out of low cost parts and with minimal tools/skills.



I've many times said, and still say, that I'm not trying to get any of you to buy anything. If you are patient I'll be describing everything here on ecomodders.com. In fact I say DON'T BUY anything from my website, because I'm trying to see what I can do to make my stuff available to you FOR FREE! Anyone who buys now will regret it when its for free later.

I have lots of customers. I'm not here to sell you anything. I'm here because I'm hoping that I'll be able to have intelligent conversations and because I've got ideas that aren't even on my website that I'd like to develop.



There are lots of people who haven't applied the technology correctly. Here is scientific proof that on-board electrolyzers DO WORK, if applied correctly. You can even go to the lead page of my website (currently) to see a video of a young lady that got a 25% gain in fuel mileage from a HyZor she installed herself (it eventually got 50% gain when the amperage was optimized).



NO! With the HyCO 2A, in normal application, your fuel system stays intact and functional. You use an EFIE and MAP Enhancer to adjust for the extra oxygen and lowered intake manifold air pressure. The HyCO 2A does NOT produce enough vapors to 'run your engine on vapor' so unfortunately you wouldn't be able to remove your throttle plate.

If you did have a HyCO 2A system large enough to provide all the fuel vapors you'd need, you would modify your 'throttle' to be a series restriction with the HyCO 2A (like I've done in my RV generator). There is still a 'throttle' of sorts but only to vary the air:fuel ratio, not to provide an intake manifold vacuum.



I'm glad you could Shows I'm in the right place My area of expertise is complementary to yours.

And I don't consider my Civic mods expensive. Messy yes, finicky yes, expensive, no. When I post it into the garage I'll give a bunch more information than you saw on YouTube. And don't knock the 'open circuit boards' too much, they've been doing their job just fine for over 10 years now.



If there was a way to answer people without 'long windedness' I would do it. But I feel like I'm bringing something to the table that few here understand; and I get the feeling that 'they' think I don't know what I'm talking about.

I do appreciate the welcome and respectful scepticism. I answer like I do out of respect for what I know these people must be feeling. It took me decades to learn what I know... I don't expect anyone to 'get it' in a few days.

Please have some patience on the 'real results'. First, I've given you all nothing but real results that I've achieved in the past. Second, I'm away from my home on an extended writing sabbatical. I'm quite happy to have anyone check out my project vehicles once I get home and they are on the road. This will happen during this summer.

Hey, I didn't know ecomodder.com even existed until a few days ago. I didn't have my life set up to 'prove' myself at the drop of a hat. It will come, I promise you, please have patience.

With 1,000's of customers, ask a few of them to join this site and share their experiences. We'd love to hear from them.

I am not trying to be completely rude, but put yourself in my shoes. I have read your very lengthy posts and even gone to your website to read even more. I find little fact and a lot of filler. I doubt you so much because you have yet to provide quantifiable data. You keep telling us how many customers you have and how you have saved them so much fuel, yet you cannot show us on this forum any proof of that. You make some big claims about 25-100% increases in fuel economy. Show us. Not in another lengthy post that explains next to nothing, in a post that shows some testing.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Shoot, my wife does not want me tinkering with her car, either. But that's not because I don't score 60+ mpg tank-to-tank in my Civic. It's because she does not want her warranty voided. And because she thinks some of my ideas are nuts or ugly, even though we all know they work: such as tire pressure or an airdam.

I don't think the fact that his wife keeps him away from her car under warranty proves anything...

Raising tire pressure or installing an air dam won't void a warranty. Some of the things George is suggesting might not only void a warranty, but also do damage to a vehicle, potentially.

But the real issue is that George doesn't show his theory as being put to the test on any of his cars. Until we see that, the discussion amounts to mere smoke and mirrors.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

With 1,000's of customers, ask a few of them to join this site and share their experiences. We'd love to hear from them.

I wouldn't, unless they can offer up credible test results -- no point cluttering up the forum with breathless testimonials.

George, this may interest you as well: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uel-15251.html

You're welcome to offer your books for free to EcoModder members -- the admins here have no problem with that.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I wouldn't, unless they can offer up credible test results -- no point cluttering up the forum with breathless testimonials.

George, this may interest you as well: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uel-15251.html

You're welcome to offer your books for free to EcoModder members -- the admins here have no problem with that.

Sorry, I was hoping to get some test results from the member's...

[MetroMPG]

I know - same here. I'm just doubtful we'd see much besides weak (in terms of credible evidence) testmonies.

I also wonder if these fuel saving devices have been evaluated using EPA Motor Vehicle Aftermarket Retrofit Device Evaluation Program methodology.

Put simply: positive results from that would be a marketing gold mine. I strongly recommend it to everyone who wants to make money selling fuel saving products.

[Gasoline Fumes]

So does a propane conversion inject liquid or vapor fuel? Can I convert to propane and reduce my fuel consumption by 90%? Or does it only work with gasoline vapors? Either way, I really hope to get 500+ MPG this summer with your help! I can't wait until you can find the time to compose some longer posts with more information.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes

So does a propane conversion inject liquid or vapor fuel? Can I convert to propane and reduce my fuel consumption by 90%? Or does it only work with gasoline vapors? Either way, I really hope to get 500+ MPG this summer with your help! I can't wait until you can find the time to compose some longer posts with more information.

If it works out, PM me. My wife and her employees use a Caterpillar propane powered forklift and in high traffic times can blow through a 10-gallon tank in just three days. Other warehouses, with more traffic, would be even more interested. But I'm not holding out a mountain of hope - my understanding is that the carburetor in those things already converts the fuel to vapor before admitting the mix to the cylinders. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[GeorgeWiseman]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

The HyZOR is a piece of PVC for $388. This is a Brown's gas electrolyzer?

Yes the HyZor is my version of Brown's Gas electrolyzer. I call it an inverse Tee design and it is a demonstration of one of my design criteria. I build practical and effective devices out of commonly available parts.

I try to reduce the parts that need to be custom made to the bare minimum and then I try to design those so they can be made in a home workshop/garage.

That's why you do NOT need to purchase product from my website... I'm going to be making these plans available for free to ecomodders.

[GeorgeWiseman]

Originally Posted by XYZ

If a disciple were to believe in your theories and accept you as his guru, he would need to buy the EFIE, buy the books (or have you provide them here, gratis) and then buy your HyCO 2A or HyZor before having any possibility of saving a penny in gasoline. And that's not to mention all the other tinkering and materials that would be necessary... And you still maintain that you are not here to promote and sell something?

Yes, I ABSOLUTELY maintain that I'm NOT here to promote my technology or website! This is getting a bit old guys... Obviously you do not know me and I can understand some scepticism because I AM a fuel saving professional with a vested interest in people buying my products.

But you guys really don't 'get it'. For me there is a potential here for MUCH MORE than money. I'm lonely. I've been alone for many years. I want someone I can talk to about the things that matter to me. This website offers that potential.

I already have an excellent reputation worldwide and plenty of satisfied customers to inflate my ego and my pocketbook. I already have an established business (since 1984) that has a solid marketing plan that quite frankly does NOT include ecomodders... Sorry to burst your bubble and I'm saying this in the most respectful terms... I don't need or want your money.

I want community. I want communication with people who actually want to improve mileage and will do what it takes to make it happen. I'm very tired of apathy and ignorance. I'd like to be a contributing part of a community that cares about my passion... saving fuel.

I'm not looking for customers or disciples. I just want to help people by teaching stuff I know, who will in turn help me learn stuff I don't know.

Originally Posted by XYZ

nor to mention the potential risks of damaging his vehicle. If your wife doesn't want you tinkering with her car, there must be a reason. After all, she knows you better than we do.

She does As a mechanic I can (and do) keep vehicles on the road far longer than normal. I've also turned my 1984 Volvo (it was a birthday present from her because I love those cars) into what she calls a FrankenCar (allowing me to put $20,000 into it and $5000 more to be done). Since she allowed me to work on her 1984 Honda Civic and my 1984 Volvo 245, she didn't see any reason to have me working on the 2008 Aveo just yet.

This Aveo is the first new vehicle we've ever owned and, in addition to not taking any chances with the warranty, she wanted to see a solid baseline before anything was done to it. BTW, we've decided having a 'new' vehicle isn't worth it, for us. I've been fighting with GM for years now, because the car does NOT get anywhere closer to the sticker mileage and, because I'm a mechanic with a scan gauge and the service manuals, I've gotten them to correct a few things. I want that car to be 'certified' the best that GM can do, so there's no question my technologies improved it. I have the fuel mileage records from day one.

It's now getting close to time for me to work on it (the warranties are expiring), so I expect to do some mods this summer.