Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2009, 08:27 AM   #51 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Waffle do you have proof or can you cite regulations that stipulate what percentage and what must be entailed for a motorcycle to be considered a motorcycle?

Because I've done this. I've had it inspected. I had a stock 00 CBR registered as an OLD Harley. Didn't change anything.

Also I know of two cars registered as cars with MC engines. They are cars.

So unless you can cite regulations that stipulate what engine a car must have to be salvaged as that car you better speak up. I know in North Carolina where emissions is an issue that changing out the motor to either motorcycle or a different engine does not cause a failure for inspection under a salvage. Even when its thoroughly inspected to make sure its not stolen. The Engine was an H22A8 dropped into a Del Sol's back end with no front engine. It was registered as a Del Sol with its emissions requirements for 1993 model year and the engine was registered under the car's VIN and he stamped a new VIN and plated it over the old engine one. He put a GSXR1000 engine in an Integra and did the exact same thing.

So unless you have a citation from a .gov or you've done this I don't believe you.

There are regulations about profiles when its manufactured. You can modify it as long as you don't remove emissions equipment. Removing Cat and muffler get you a ticket. Putting a turbo on does not. Putting a new engine in does not. Putting a motorcycle engine in a car does not. Putting a car engine in a motorcycle(why you would do this I am not sure) does not.

We aren't removing emissions equipment. In fact because its a car it already far exceeds emissions protocols for a motorcycle of 96 model year. So even if they have an issue with its emissions he is already overcoming those.

and I am aware SPCNS is not just for the first 500. Chosing your model year for emissions reasons is though. Anything after 500 gets slapped with an 09 model year and no matter what that means smog checks.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-06-2009, 12:08 AM   #52 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 349
Thanked 122 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Waffle do you have proof or can you cite regulations that stipulate what percentage and what must be entailed for a motorcycle to be considered a motorcycle?
There's no percentage, it just can't resemble one of the junked vehicles used to make it.
Quote:
a vehicle reported for dismantling, as required by Section 5500 or 11520, which, when reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the vehicle dismantled
It also can't simply be a modified version of a vehicle.
Quote:
A specially constructed vehicle (SPCNS) does not include a vehicle that has been repaired or restored to its original design by replacing parts or a vehicle modified from its original design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Because I've done this. I've had it inspected. I had a stock 00 CBR registered as an OLD Harley. Didn't change anything.

Also I know of two cars registered as cars with MC engines. They are cars.
In CA, in a smog check area, w/ the DMV knowing they had MC engines?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
So unless you can cite regulations that stipulate what engine a car must have to be salvaged as that car you better speak up. I know in North Carolina where emissions is an issue that changing out the motor to either motorcycle or a different engine does not cause a failure for inspection under a salvage. Even when its thoroughly inspected to make sure its not stolen. The Engine was an H22A8 dropped into a Del Sol's back end with no front engine. It was registered as a Del Sol with its emissions requirements for 1993 model year and the engine was registered under the car's VIN and he stamped a new VIN and plated it over the old engine one. He put a GSXR1000 engine in an Integra and did the exact same thing.
North Carolina vehicle code isn't the same as California vehicle code. Technically, it's a federal crime to change anything emissions related on a vehicle 65 and up IIRC, and that includes adding a turbo, but states don't enforce federal law, so if they don't care people can more or less do whatever they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
So unless you have a citation from a .gov or you've done this I don't believe you.

There are regulations about profiles when its manufactured. You can modify it as long as you don't remove emissions equipment. Removing Cat and muffler get you a ticket. Putting a turbo on does not. Putting a new engine in does not. Putting a motorcycle engine in a car does not. Putting a car engine in a motorcycle(why you would do this I am not sure) does not.
A .gov citation is above. I've already talked with CA state refs about what's legit and what isn't regarding some SPCNS stuff, and even CARB when the state ref said he didn't know, so while I wouldn't say I'm an authoritative source in CA emissions, I've talked w/ quite a few people who are, and based on what they've said, a vehicle/engine has to be certified for whatever year, and cannot be modified outside of normal repairs unless the part carries a CARB EO #, indicating it's been tested and won't negatively impact vehicle emissions significantly. Whether something is a SPCNS or simply a manufactured vehicle with a modified chassis is somewhat vague, since the vehicle technically can't resemble one of the junked vehicles used to create it. However, in the case of a car with three wheels, unless the owner is really good buddies with the ref, I doubt they would consider it to not resemble a Honda compact car.

I've even been told that a change in gearing is technically illegal according to federal law if it wasn't offered in that MY, however it's one of those things they don't care about as long as everything else is there and it passes smog if applicable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
We aren't removing emissions equipment. In fact because its a car it already far exceeds emissions protocols for a motorcycle of 96 model year. So even if they have an issue with its emissions he is already overcoming those.
It does in CA. That's why even "performance" parts like aftermarket intakes and exhaust manifolds require a CARB sticker, showing the part has been tested and the engine still complies with CARB requirements. It's not just about emissions equipment, but vehicle emissions in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
and I am aware SPCNS is not just for the first 500. Chosing your model year for emissions reasons is though. Anything after 500 gets slapped with an 09 model year and no matter what that means smog checks.
No, well, not yet anyway.
Quote:
Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?

Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:

* Hybrid
* 1975 year model or older
* Diesel powered
* Electric
* Natural gas powered and has a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of 14,001 lbs. or more.
* Motorcycle
* Trailer
There is talk about smogging newer diesels and MCs because some of their owners are dumbasses and "modding" them to the point where their likely emissions are enough to constitute implementing a smog check for 'em.

That said, I was wrong about it having a whatever year the engine had emissions profile, so it would have the current model year.

Last edited by roflwaffle; 05-06-2009 at 12:19 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 12:43 AM   #53 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Right but my point is still that the modification the engine in the case of an MC would be an emissions improvement over what the MC used to be.

As I originally stated its a toss up. IF we were talking swapping car engines you'd probably not get by with it(if emissions were worse), but since your trading classifications it doesn't really resemble either, because no Honda I've ever seen has 3 wheels(playing Devil's advocate for for the inspector) and no motorcycle has a car chassis(Aptera and a few others excluded). I think your originaly note denotes a spcns vehicle? If it does not resemble the original its spcns? If thats the case it can't be done in CA. If thats describing something else it needs more clarification before discussion can advance. I think the next quote puts us in inbetween turf though. The one stating SPCNs does not entail vehicles that have been modified. . .Its really hard to say. I'm still banking you could pull it off with out-of-state paperwork, to get your instate, take it to your BAR station and have them check it out and get some kind of stamp or notice in case you get pulled over.

But to answer the emissions questions yes the mc engines passed inspection by having an active emissions system(water injection and temporary lean burn). The MC engines were NC and a little trickery was used to get through inspection^^^, but they got stamped with the car model year and the engines were re-stamped as car engines(after which they were custom kit cars and got a selected model year).
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 04:14 AM   #54 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 349
Thanked 122 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Right but my point is still that the modification the engine in the case of an MC would be an emissions improvement over what the MC used to be.
That depends on the modification. A turbo alone may or may not improve emissions, it depends, which is besides the point since crewing with the emissions system is still a federal crime, albeit one not really enforced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
As I originally stated its a toss up. IF we were talking swapping car engines you'd probably not get by with it(if emissions were worse), but since your trading classifications it doesn't really resemble either, because no Honda I've ever seen has 3 wheels(playing Devil's advocate for for the inspector) and no motorcycle has a car chassis(Aptera and a few others excluded).
There's no huge gray area here. The DMV explicitly states a SPCNS vehicle, in this case a motorcycle, can't be something modified from it's original design. It has to be unrecognizable as a production vehicle, can't resemble anything, and a Honda with three wheels is still just a modified Honda, and fairly recognizable, even if the inspector hasn't yet seen someone take a wheel off a Honda yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
I think your originaly note denotes a spcns vehicle? If it does not resemble the original its spcns? If thats the case it can't be done in CA.
Yup... That's what the DMV stuff says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
If thats describing something else it needs more clarification before discussion can advance.
It's already as clear as it's gonna get as per my last post. If it resembles another production vehicle, even if it's modified from it's original design, then it's not SPCNs. It doesn't get as clear as that. A Civic with three wheels does not get a SPCNS reg AFAIK, since it's still just a modified Civic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
I think the next quote puts us in inbetween turf though. The one stating SPCNs does not entail vehicles that have been modified. . .Its really hard to say. I'm still banking you could pull it off with out-of-state paperwork, to get your instate, take it to your BAR station and have them check it out and get some kind of stamp or notice in case you get pulled over.
Not AFAIK. The ref will look at it, maybe comment on the interesting Honda, and designate it as a modified 199x Civic, provided the modifications are safe enough as per a CHP inspection. It won't be a SPCNs unless the body doesn't look like anything else in production, ie a tube frame or similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
But to answer the emissions questions yes the mc engines passed inspection by having an active emissions system(water injection and temporary lean burn). The MC engines were NC and a little trickery was used to get through inspection^^^, but they got stamped with the car model year and the engines were re-stamped as car engines(after which they were custom kit cars and got a selected model year).
It must be nice to have such a loose system over there, but unfortunately, it;s pretty strict here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 09:37 AM   #55 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
When I said it wasn't clear I meant what that quote was referring to. I Was pretty sure it was referring to an SPCNS, but it wasn't labeled.

I agree it would be a modified civic. . .but its not a car if its got 3 wheels. You're right its not a very big mod, but it moves the car to a motorcycle by law(less than 4 wheels Aptera). Thats why I said it was gray area. It resembles a whatever odd civic, but by law its now a motorcycle. . .

Could. . .the classification just be converted so that its a 1996(?) Honda Civic motorcycle? Not that one exists production wise. . .but thats what this is? IF thats what happens he can still get away with his technique because it will be a motorcycle before 00.

It really is nice to have easy(no) emissions policy. I just have to get new registration stickers every year and carry liability insurance. Over here the state decided to evade the emissions business for us(federal). If you modify your car its no longer whatever it was, its a custom car. You don't really even have to get it registered as such(as nothing changes, except your insurance they would like to know if you add HP, but thats not in your best interests).
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 07:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
Hydrogen Nut
 
Ptero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 151

Smart Car ForTwo Pure - '08 Smart Fortwo Pure stripped
90 day: 51.35 mpg (US)

BMW 750iL V12 - '90 BMW V12
90 day: 26.4 mpg (US)

Wildfire 250C - '08 Shandong Pioneer 250C
Thanks: 2
Thanked 33 Times in 22 Posts
Quote:
Although I imagine they could still tell the difference between a car with three wheels and a MC.
Man, I just read through 6 pages of this and got a headache.

If it was my toy, I'd take it to the DMV and try to get it registered as a car. Let them make it into a motorcycle. It's got 3 wheels. It's a motorcycle.

You don't want smog? What's the big deal? Use an older car.

Smog's the law in California. Smog it. I gotta. You gotta. No sympathy here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 02:43 PM   #57 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: los angeles, ca
Posts: 151
Thanks: 2
Thanked 19 Times in 12 Posts
Yeah this is a crazy thread. I talked to 'em a while back about this stuff in detail, and they basically told me "You build it, then we'll figure out what it is." They told me that this type of vehicle is basically a grey area for them, where they don't have explicit laws that say it's this, or that. With that in mind, why don't you do a diesel? Problem solved.
__________________
1989 Dodge Diesel 972rwhp, 27mpg.
1971 Nova tubbed, solid cam 355 w/nitrous, 8mpg (sorry).
1960 Nash DIY Hybrid Project
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 08:11 PM   #58 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
orange4boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Wet Coast, Kanuckistan.
Posts: 1,275

The Golden Egg - '93 Toyota Previa DX
90 day: 31.91 mpg (US)

Chewie - '03 Toyota Prius
90 day: 57 mpg (US)

The Spaceship - '00 Honda Insight
Thanks: 100
Thanked 305 Times in 178 Posts
Just some friendly Ecomodder encouragement: Tune up your car. Not a big deal considering your obvious talents.

In the time you will spend trying to get around the smog laws by converting a vehicle you could easily fix your car to pass the test.

This is Ecomodder not Smogevader
__________________
Vortex generators are old tech. My new and improved vortex alternators are unstoppable.

"Itís easy to explain how rockets work but explaining the aerodynamics of a wing takes a rocket scientist.


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 07:12 AM   #59 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs up Convert a prius

So I realize this thread is pretty old. Not sure if carwhisperer ever did this conversion but I found this searching google.

I have the same idea but to make an efficient car even more efficient. Imagine shaving another 800 lbs (guessing)off a prius. And then shave off another wheel of rolling resistance.

My idea is to make it a two seater with the battery just behind the driver. Really all your doing is building a wall behind the driver. Further weight reduction would be the stock power seats to be removed and put in manual racing type seats. A small subframe would be built to carry the rear suspension/wheel. A salvaged Prius that has been smacked in the rear would be a perfect caninidate.

And you could keep it registered as a Prius, no smog, and get even better mpg than the civic.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric car conversion: Project ForkenSwift MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 1041 07-28-2014 09:19 AM
I found another advantage to driving an ultra-low Cd car basjoos Aerodynamics 26 08-25-2012 02:15 PM
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 55 08-20-2012 11:34 PM
Win $100.00 in Free Gas! Design Contest: Ecomod my Ride XFi EcoModding Central 127 02-17-2011 12:07 AM
$500 and 30mpg car? possible? olderthanme EcoModding Central 6 07-15-2008 09:37 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com