Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2019, 10:42 AM   #1131 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 838

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 375 Times in 271 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Dodgy? That incentive is dodgy, crafted to exclude Tesla.
Crafted to:
  1. Completely exclude Mercedes, Audi, and Jaguar.
  2. Force Chevy set the base price of the Bolt $3000 less in Canada than in the USA
  3. Force Kia to set the base price of the Niro EV $5,000 less in Canada
  4. Force Hyundai to set the base price of the Kona EV $3,500 less in Canada

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about Tesla at all but an effort to get all manufacturers to offer less expensive EVs.

$45,000 CAD = $33,572.95 USD as of 1-May-2019

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Hersbird (05-01-2019), Xist (05-01-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-01-2019, 11:30 AM   #1132 (permalink)
Duck duck duck
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,481

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 55.76 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 31.18 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,334
Thanked 1,848 Times in 1,186 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Crafted to:
  1. Completely exclude Mercedes, Audi, and Jaguar.
  2. Force Chevy set the base price of the Bolt $3000 less in Canada than in the USA
  3. Force Kia to set the base price of the Niro EV $5,000 less in Canada
  4. Force Hyundai to set the base price of the Kona EV $3,500 less in Canada

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about Tesla at all but an effort to get all manufacturers to offer less expensive EVs.

$45,000 CAD = $33,572.95 USD as of 1-May-2019
That could well be. For Tesla to make the Model 3 fit was a hard squeeze though.

I don't like hard limits, I'd prefer a gradual trimming calculated over the net sale price, not the base model.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.14 Gm or 0.09 MM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 12:07 PM   #1133 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,709

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,196
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,883 Posts
I'd prefer no corrupt and idiotic subsidies altogether. There's zero problems created, and zero unintended consequences that way.

Tesla should offer this software limited model, then once the terms of the rebate are fulfilled, offer to unlock the range for an additional fee. Heck, the law is probably worded so poorly that Tesla could probably offer the upgrade the day after purchase and still qualify for the rebate.

That's the problem when smug idiots think they can outsmart the free market.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Hersbird (05-01-2019), roosterk0031 (05-01-2019), Xist (05-01-2019)
Old 05-01-2019, 12:22 PM   #1134 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 3,395

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,312
Thanked 1,445 Times in 922 Posts
Use the rebate check to unlock the software. I love it.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
Xist (05-01-2019)
Old 05-01-2019, 03:44 PM   #1135 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,709

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,196
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,883 Posts
Posting my comment from another forum:

The point isn't to sell 93 mile range Teslas, and Tesla purposely chose that pitiful range just to dissuade people from ordering. The real purpose is to qualify the more expensive Teslas for the $5k rebate.

"Tesla is changing the Model 3 Standard Range to a software-limited 93-mile range vehicle that starts at $44,999, just $1 under the $45,000 limit set by Canada. Since its base price is under $45,000, then the Standard Range Plus also qualifies for the $5,000 incentive. This vehicle starts at $53,700, and is available for ordering via Tesla's website. Because it's considered a trim level of the Model 3 "Standard Range" and comes in under $55,000, Tesla and Canada say it's good for the $5,000 EV incentive. The $53,700 base price is no different than what was listed before this revelation, but after the incentive it's down to $48,700.

These are the chicken tax sort of games we play when the government thinks it's going to outsmart the free market for their benevolent purposes.

I'm going to LOL if Tesla is able to offer a purchasable upgrade to the software limited 93 mile range version, which should be legally possible considering they can sell the more expensive trim.

I expect dumb laws to be circumvented by ingenuity, but I never considered it could be done in software. Practically no effort to circumvent that dumb law. Tesla can implement the change tomorrow if they wanted, meanwhile fixing this crack in the law will probably take a year for corrupt politicians to finally "fix".
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Xist (05-01-2019)
Old 05-01-2019, 04:30 PM   #1136 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 838

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 375 Times in 271 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Posting my comment from another forum:

The point isn't to sell 93 mile range Teslas, and Tesla purposely chose that pitiful range just to dissuade people from ordering. The real purpose is to qualify the more expensive Teslas for the $5k rebate.
True, Tesla doesn't want to sell a single Model 3 for $45,000 CAD. However, the danger is that while Tesla software limited the Model 3 their competition just dropped the base price. So when a customer goes shopping for a $45,000 EV they see:

Tesla Model 3 - 93 mile range
Chevy Bolt - 238 mile range
Kia Niro - 239 mile range
Hyundai Kona - 258 mile range

Also, Tesla's advertising is based on free media exposure. Articles that say "Tesla launches cheaper Model 3 with 150 km (93 mile) range" isn't good for the brand. Most people will miss the context and just see the headline.

(No different than the general public's belief that the Volt is an electric car with a 50 mile range)
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (05-01-2019), Xist (05-01-2019)
Old 05-01-2019, 04:34 PM   #1137 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,709

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,196
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,883 Posts
I would hope the Tesla website would show the proper info for prospective Canadian buyers. That's where I expect most people to shop if the Tesla interests them at all.

The people that believe the Volt is an EV with 50 mile range probably weren't serious about buying a plug-in or EV in the first place. In other words, I wouldn't imagine many people purchased alternatives due to lack of knowledge of the Volt capabilities.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 05:20 PM   #1138 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 838

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 375 Times in 271 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I would hope the Tesla website would show the proper info for prospective Canadian buyers. That's where I expect most people to shop if the Tesla interests them at all.
The Tesla website isn't even going to show the $45K Model 3. It is the 3rd party car shopping / comparison sites that having a 93 mile Tesla will look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The people that believe the Volt is an EV with 50 mile range probably weren't serious about buying a plug-in or EV in the first place. In other words, I wouldn't imagine many people purchased alternatives due to lack of knowledge of the Volt capabilities.
No, I'm sure they aren't. However, if EV and Hybrid sales are going to break out of the single digits then manufacturers and dealers are going to have to get better at selling them to people that aren't actively seeking to buy one.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 05:25 PM   #1139 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,709

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,196
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
The Tesla website isn't even going to show the $45K Model 3. It is the 3rd party car shopping / comparison sites that having a 93 mile Tesla will look bad.
Which is the point of not displaying it on the website; Tesla doesn't want to sell that model as it represents a sizable marginal loss. The whole point is to be able to advertise their more expensive models on the website along with the eligible $5k incentive.

Of course you know this, I'm just stating it for the larger audience.


Quote:
No, I'm sure they aren't. However, if EV and Hybrid sales are going to break out of the single digits then manufacturers and dealers are going to have to get better at selling them to people that aren't actively seeking to buy one.
Agreed, but then manufacturers aren't in a hurry to sell the products that have the lowest (or negative) marginal profit. A manufacturers best case scenario is that someone walks into their dealership because they are interested in an EV, but then get sold on a Ford Expedition with all the upgrades. I don't know what the margins are on the Volt, but I assume they are less than practically any of their ICE counterparts.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 05:57 PM   #1140 (permalink)
Duck duck duck
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,481

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 55.76 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 31.18 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,334
Thanked 1,848 Times in 1,186 Posts
I could live with 150 km of range, especially if it allows decent fast charging. I may even choose FSD over the range extension. And have a truly unique vehicle
Alas, the Insight needs to soldier on for a while; getting serviced tomorrow. I'm saving up though.

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.14 Gm or 0.09 MM.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com