What are the rules of debate here?

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I've also found the "ignore user" feature to work pretty well.

"Ignore User" buttons work well for stopping any interaction between two parties, but it just prolongs the inevitable.

Before, User A could post something, which offends User B. User B would respond to User A with some post containing some combination of facts and feelings, designed to goad User A. User A responds, and so on, and so on... ad nauseam. Everybody gets turned off.

With the "Ignore User" button, User A could get tired of User B, and place User B in his "ignore" list. User B would post things as before, for a while, saying things in an attempt to re-goad User A.

But, to some new User C, reading these posts between Users A and B for the first time, User B could have some worthwhile thing to say (remember "some combination of facts and feelings?") while attacking User A, but for some odd reason, User A isn't responding at all. User C can't find a reason for this. User C would also see other people that are interacting with User B, and that would just make User A's non-interaction that much more puzzling. User C might even read some of the interaction between Users A and B, but would quickly get lost in the discussion. User C would come to the tentative conclusion that User B is to be believed more than User A.

Again, what would I instead suggest? More pro-active moderation by the admin team. At least, to modify the board software or provide some other feature to allow others to see that User A is actually ignoring User B.

In the meantime, I will myself start using the "ignore user" feature, but I will include in my signature who I am ignoring, and a link to a post detailing why. Using my example above, it will provide User C with the necessary context to explain why User A is not responding to User B.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by t vago

But, to some new User C, reading these posts between Users A and B for the first time, User B could have some worthwhile thing to say (remember "some combination of facts and feelings?") while attacking User A, but for some odd reason, User A isn't responding at all. User C can't find a reason for this. User C would also see other people that are interacting with User B, and that would just make User A's non-interaction that much more puzzling. User C might even read some of the interaction between Users A and B, but would quickly get lost in the discussion. User C would come to the tentative conclusion that User B is to be believed more than User A.

Sometimes, the simplest option is also the true answer: User A is just ignoring User B since he doesn't want to be dragged down to B's level. What was that saying about arguing with an idiot?

Originally Posted by t vago

In the meantime, I will myself start using the "ignore user" feature, but I will include in my signature who I am ignoring, and a link to a post detailing why.

With all due respect, I totally understand why you want to do this, but it still looks like kids fighting in preschool. "I'm not talking to Tommy because he says bad things"
Your signature is visible in every post, so even far, far away from the people you are ignoring, some User C will see your sig and think "Geez, looks like he gets offended quite easily".

We want to reduce the fighting and bad manners on this forum. If we just ignore idiots, then their posts are still here for others to read, even years from now.

[jakobnev]

No u

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

With all due respect, I totally understand why you want to do this, but it still looks like kids fighting in preschool. "I'm not talking to Tommy because he says bad things"
Your signature is visible in every post, so even far, far away from the people you are ignoring, some User C will see your sig and think "Geez, looks like he gets offended quite easily".

Perhaps. It's a risk I'm willing to take. For those "User C"s that are too lazy to click on the explanatory link, they would not be worth my time anyway.

It'd be a nice addition to the "ignore user" feature to have at least a number on each post, by the poster's name, showing how many other members are ignoring the poster. Or perhaps the "ignore user" feature could make it so that the person being ignored also cannot see the posts made by the person doing the ignoring. I don't know.

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

We want to reduce the fighting and bad manners on this forum. If we just ignore idiots, then their posts are still here for others to read, even years from now.

Agreed. Clearly, something needs to be done.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I have an idea: This thread was started to protest against name-calling. Since it too has degraded to just that, then let's go all out and sacrifice it. If you want to call someone an idiot, communist, republican, two-timer, anarchist, democrat, demogog, burnt chicken neck, etc., then do it here and send a PM to whoever got named with a link to your post.

Apparently you still don't understand the difference between name-calling and categorizing someone with an accurate description of their behavior or ideology.

There's nothing wrong with calling someone a communist, or a republican, or an anarchist, or a democrat, or a demagogue - if that's what they ARE. That's not name calling. (If it walks like a duck, and it flies like a duck, and it quacks like a duck... it's a duck! Why should that be any problem - other than that some people are hypersensitive to being portrayed as what they are?

Name calling is resorting to calling names like idiot, a--hole, and we can use our imaginations to imagine other similar epithets, that convey no information and are only meant to insult.

Frankly, I don't think this board needs stricter moderation. I do think that anyone on a web list should get used to the idea of becoming a rhinoceros.

No, I'm not calling anyone a bad name - I'm saying we need to grow thicker skins.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by t vago

Agreed. Clearly, something needs to be done.

Yeah, everyone needs to learn Q-tip: "quit taking it personally".

[user removed]

My skin grew plenty thick when I had to occasionally deal with an insolent jackass in the process of making a living dealing with the public.

You aren't paying me.

regards
Mech

[drmiller100]

Starting at the top, the list owners pick the moderators.

The moderators pick the subjects and attitudes they want to promote, and those they want to discourage.

If the mods want users who look us up on facebook, chase our IP addresses down, and make personal attacks based on that information, then the site will rapidly end up with a certain attitude.

If the mods want users who laugh at funny looking cars like Basjoos car, scoff at creative thinking, and belittle those just starting out, then this site will get a certain attitude.

So far this site seems to be pretty good at letting us all wear our big girl panties, and take responsibility for what we post.

Is there garbage? Absolutely. Are there some fairly creative folks hanging out in the fringes? Absolutely.

Is this supposed to be a CREATIVE site, or a site where we all run around and parrot "truths" ????

I think it is pretty funny I'm reading this thread thinking folks are *****ing about Frank and Vago, and I bet Frank and Vago are thinking they are *****ing about me, and REALLY everyone is *****ing about all 3 of us.

Which is a hint maybe I'm more like those two then I really care to consider for very long!!!!!!

[user removed]

It reminds me of my brother in law. He was always late for any engagement unless there was a show that started at hour X. After a few of those "just wait a while until they show up, from the wife" and that turned into 30-45 minutes, I stopped waiting. The next two times he shows up I am eating dessert. After that he shows up on time and has done so for over 21 years.

When "that's just the way he is" means tolerating arrogance, condescension, insolence, and personal attacks, or even simple lack of decency and respect, I just get to the point where I ask myself, what is the benefit to me?

There is none.

Why am I here?

I forgot.

Oh that's right I have this invention that I think some here might find interesting.

Oh yes there are some neat things I have learned here from many people of completely different backgrounds. My customers were NASA Engineers, Military Brass, and Home Boy Rednecks. Those who found my services to be of reasonable value became friends and patrons. I was just invited to attend the second retirement of one of those friend-patrons of my business, 12 years after I sold the shop. I found out he had Lou Gehrig's disease and I almost cried knowing how terrible a way to go that is. I still can not understand how that could happen to such a kind caring and decent person.

Our moto at my old shop was "Care, Courtesy and Common Sense". It was adopted by one of the most intelligent people I have ever had the privilege of knowing in my just over 61 years, a Doctor of Engineering in tTheoretical Aerodynamics. IQ off the charts but still a decent person of humility who had that rare capability to explain something to you without making you feel like you were a second class citizen.

I used that same philosophy to try to explain things to people when they had car problems, so they would understand what had happened and what needed to be done to fix the problem. They paid me to get a monkey off their backs, and I tried very hard to do it and to stay within the estimate.

Intelligence is earned, but many feel like it is limited to a small percentage of the population. I find it to be much more prevalent than some may believe, just in different categories, some of which are far different from any formal curriculum. I have learned from people who are functionally illiterate, and from the same PHD Engineer who got his degree at MIT.

When you choose to eliminate the potential to learn from any breathing person on this planet, you condemn yourself to perpetuation of ignorance.

I know who has the gift of explaning things so I can understand them, when I need that information, and to them I want to express my earnest appreciation for their gift of knowledge. I hope on occasion I can return the favor.

I don't need a moderator to tell me when I am being a jerk. They should never have to waste the time telling me what I already know.

Now after all this babbling I think I have related what Christ did in maybe 3 words.

regards
Mech

[ecomodded]

Might be time for a few members to put their big boy panties on and ditch those big girl panties. They are not working for you, the denial is pathetically obvious. I mean that in a good way,
In a give your head a shake way, we all need well deserving advice at one time or another. Man up