To Wheel Or Not To Wheel ?

[freebeard]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...n1-626x417.jpg Link at Car&Driver? I thought it might be the Lomero.

This is a screen cap of 22:52 into a NASA 360 video. IIRC this was Elio or Edison2 talking.



Luigi Colani got there first:




Looking at the second picture I conclude that the orange bar is simply an arm rest.

[aerohead]

I looked at the drag tables.
Ecorunners body is essentially a streamline body of revolution of 5.5:1 fineness ratio.
In free air,and super-critical Reynolds number(11000000) it is rated at Cd 0.047.
In ground proximity this doubles to Cd 0.094.
Then you add wheels.
I'm pretty certain that there's some legderdemain going on with claims.

[All Darc]

Are you sure? Other times I saw people in this forum making similar comments about Morelli's, to find out later it was a mitake. It was a similar thing, like saying there would be a loss for ground and a loss for wheel, but it was for wheels only, since 0,046 was already for ground but with no wheels.

If Ecorunner VI wasn't trully 0,047, it would not became a news as the best drag coefficient ever achieved. Somone else would already exposed the hoax, if it was really a hoax.

Aptera for other side confuses me. Most pages said 2E version was the last version, for production, but the last got a different shape, looking squares and uggly, compared to the second (after the first nearly home made). And the drag of the squarer version was increased to CD:0,15. But in a In trview Farbbo said the last version improve aerodynamics.
They remake the car uggly just to add windows able to revolve.

I did this APter/Pegasus combination. Just reduced the angle of the horizontal direction of APtera, and it fit nice. Teh I added the windshild and side windows from APtera.





I wonder hif this front wheel configuration would make Aptera got quite better drad coefficient.

Originally Posted by aerohead

I looked at the drag tables.
Ecorunners body is essentially a streamline body of revolution of 5.5:1 fineness ratio.
In free air,and super-critical Reynolds number(11000000) it is rated at Cd 0.047.
In ground proximity this doubles to Cd 0.094.
Then you add wheels.
I'm pretty certain that there's some legderdemain going on with claims.

[freebeard]

That's a good Photochop.

A good next step might be to stretch the wheelbase. That would reclaim the passenger capacity and improve the fineness ratio. It could even have a diamond layout for the seats. The Aptera doors do not impress. Here's the Ford Evos Concept



Much closer to the clamshell body.

[All Darc]

Pegasus Fusion already fits 4 people, back to back.
If we stretch it we would also need to increase width a little. Maybe a 46cm stretch (most for the seats) in lenght it's enough for 4 seats.

But this would be for a not very powerfull engine like Aptera, but for a in-wheel motors. Maybe 3 motors of 2000W it's enough. Batteries could be in some of the front, and in the end back. Solar cells on top, reducing need of much batteries.


Another idea to reduce strectching needs would be use close seats, like the ones used in Ecomobile :



Four people would require a strong composite, specialy for strategic points on the structure, like for the seat belts anchor points. Perhaps a "carbon fiber skeleton", just for this.
I supose it's not a good idea to allow the vehicle became larger than 5 meter in lenght.

I would like to try to design, just for fun, a vehicle like I that. What is a good and not difficult to learn to use, 3D software for this ?

I have just two drawings of Morelli's concept, but not sure if it's enough. I'm looking for more angles, like a top view, to get better reference.

Originally Posted by freebeard

That's a good Photochop.

A good next step might be to stretch the wheelbase. That would reclaim the passenger capacity and improve the fineness ratio. It could even have a diamond layout for the seats. The Aptera doors do not impress. Here's the Ford Evos Concept



Much closer to the clamshell body.

[freebeard]

Rear seat passengers feet normally go under the front passenger's H-point anyway. That close coupled tandem seating doesn't gain much. Tail-gunner seating will never be popular with anyone over 6 years old. A diamond pattern instead of side-by side conserves width.

Increasing width with length doesn't improve the fineness ratio.

Software: Some programs have a learning curve like a stroll up the hill, others are like running smack into a wall. I have struggled with a number of programs, Blender and others I try to forget.

I suggest for your consideration Wings 3D.

I can wrap my head around it's process, but still need to study to figure out how to complete arbitrary tasks. The work flow goes select — right-click to select from contextual menu of options — middle-clicking and fiddling around — left click to accept/escape to revert. Rinse and repeat. Navigation and camera movement can be changed to mimic other popular programs and you can work with a single, double or three-button mouse.

The current version requires a later OS than I have, and the old version lost it's status bar, so I'm not doing much now, just trying to prep an 'new' computer for the current threat environment online. It's a Core2 Duo Intel processor so it should be immune to Spectre/Meltdown. I still have concerns about BadUSB, and I want a hardware firewall ahead of the software firewall in the OS.

[All Darc]

Tail gun seating is this, at least what I found :



Seats with back to back (back od front driver oposite to the back of passager behind, have a problem I just figured now. It need to be 90 degree, fixed, otherwise the other person will have reverse (supplementary angle) angle.




Diamond pattern ???

Another problem from Aptera, in regard the large wheels (too thick) is the fact there was a large space from the wheels streamlined cover to the ground, since usual city streets have gaps that would broke it.

I imagine a wheels streamlined covers that would have a adjust of heigth, like one portion of the cover would enter in itself, to make the wheels more noticeable and have less danger of a gap on street broke the covers. For roads in fine shape it could be closer to the ground.

I also imagined a approach to allow more angle/lateral moviment for front wheels without need a very width value to the wheel covers, but it's difficult to imagine a way to use this idea together with the idea adjustable heigth.
Anyway, to allow more angled moviment/angle of front wheel, like for parking between two cars, I imagined two small ports in each side, that ould open as the wheel pull it when we turn the steering wheel a lot. In normal drive it would not be used a lot, since the wheel angle would not change enough.

Originally Posted by freebeard

Rear seat passengers feet normally go under the front passenger's H-point anyway. That close coupled tandem seating doesn't gain much. Tail-gunner seating will never be popular with anyone over 6 years old. A diamond pattern instead of side-by side conserves width.

Increasing width with length doesn't improve the fineness ratio.

Software: Some programs have a learning curve like a stroll up the hill, others are like running smack into a wall. I have struggled with a number of programs, Blender and others I try to forget.

I suggest for your consideration Wings 3D.

I can wrap my head around it's process, but still need to study to figure out how to complete arbitrary tasks. The work flow goes select — right-click to select from contextual menu of options — middle-clicking and fiddling around — left click to accept/escape to revert. Rinse and repeat. Navigation and camera movement can be changed to mimic other popular programs and you can work with a single, double or three-button mouse.

The current version requires a later OS than I have, and the old version lost it's status bar, so I'm not doing much now, just trying to prep an 'new' computer for the current threat environment online. It's a Core2 Duo Intel processor so it should be immune to Spectre/Meltdown. I still have concerns about BadUSB, and I want a hardware firewall ahead of the software firewall in the OS.

[freebeard]

Yamaha Cross Hub Concept diamond seat layout diagram - Motor Trend

Loads of leg- and elbow-room.

My preferred solution for full wheel pants would be a secondary steering arm that would turn the pant half as much as the wheel.

"Tail-guner' is a colloquialism for the 3rd rear-facing seat in a station wagon.

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by freebeard

A diamond pattern instead of side-by side conserves width.

Yes but passenger behind driver minimizes frontal area, and keeps the air stream more coherent.

[freebeard]

Here're three in a row.