Will Tensions in Iran Send Oil Prices Through the Roof?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I know I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating. The quality issues, though important, were and are far from the whole story. It's really simple: if GM or Ford or Chrysler wants me to even think about buying one of their cars, they first have to build the kind of car I want to buy. THEN I'll start looking at things like quality and price, but if they don't build it, I'm not even interested in looking.

Now what I want, and what a lot of other Americans apparently want (judging from the fact that the Japanese & Germans sell us a lot of this kind of car), is small, nimble, and good on gas. No reason they can't build cars like this: the Japanese do it, and in America. They just don't WANT to. They'd rather spend millions on advertising to convince people they really want those big gas-guzzlers, instead of spending the same amount on R&D to build better cars.

Full size pickups are still VERY popular here, even when gas was $4.00 a gallon- they just parked their trucks longer. Many here use pickup trucks for work trucks, many work at small businesses and have many tools, maybe the need to travel up some steep dirt roads or tow something dealing with their work- now I can understand THOSE pickup truck drivers. But we also have a large group of good ole boys and gals here that will only drive a full size truck, often a 4x4 because they want the power to go off-road here and to make it to work during bad weather days, especially in our winters because Ky has little in snow removal hardware. I figure front wheel drive has a place in snow though.

Honestly I live in a part of the country in which GM cars are still the majority on the road. I admit, it is slowly changing and I am seeing more Toyotas than Hondas, which I do not believe is in sync with the rest of the country is it? Either way we likely have 4 to one Domestic cars to imported cars/trucks in the city near me. I might take a picture of our typical city traffic and show you. One could never tell that Japan was selling so many cars based on what is on the road here, and we even have a Toyota plant in Georgetown Ky. So whenever I hear the argument that GM does not build cars people want I look at the cars on the road here, and the majority are GM, and the vast majority are cars/trucks from the "Big 3" American car companies. ---

Of course we all know that Kentucky lags the rest of the country. While the rest of the country is making smoking weed legal Kentucky is still growing deadly tobacco, which many smoke and chew/dip here, and they are still chasing down moonshiners in dry counties in which it is against local law to sell or "bootleg" any form of alcohol. Heard of The Dukes of Hazzard? The FACT IS the tv show was named after Hazard (one "Z") Kentucky, not Georgia as they claim in the show. The people behind the tv show did not want to offend the people near Hazard Ky so they added a "Z" and stuck it in Georgia. Truth is it's a real place with plenty of wild people not too far away from here. Oh, in case of having closed containers of alcohol in a dry county, you are allowed to have alcohol for personal use, but sometimes the police in the dry counties might claim a few cases of beer is evidence of bootlegging- or selling alcohol in a dry county, and in many cases it is possible a person is stocking up for a party or trying to save gas by making fewer trips to the liquor store. - Myself, I no longer consider myself a drinker. But it does go to show how backwards things are in this state. And that maybe why we still have a majority of GM cars on the road here, I would never guess they had a problem if I based their car sales on what I see here, and we see plenty of NEW cars from GM sold here too. We may be the last place in the country like this though, and it is slowly changing here.

[Frank Lee]

There definitely are regional differences in the automotive fleet.

When I moved to N MN there was NOTHING... NOTHING but 4x4s and Cadillacs. The town has three dealerships and they are GM, Ford, and Chrysler. You have to drive over an hour just to go see a foreign car dealership.

Out in Cali I saw so many Priuii and other foreign cars, it was like the opposite of home- you had to squint to find a domestic sedan; they just aren't there! I was surprised, though, to see as many jacked-up 4x4s in Cali as I did. For some reason I thought they were more enlightened out there.

[Christ]

Around here, as a youngin, there were no imports to speak of. The Fast and The Furious came out, as well as some lesser known substrates of the same non-sense, and BOOM. Rice Explosion.

Now that I'm older, and most of the tards have moved on to the city, hoping to make something of their lacking education and utter disdain for society, it's alot calmer around here. The newest generation here seems to be somewhat more intelligent than most of mine ever was, at least in this area. I think we got those well-mannered Californians, and the idiots from my Gen took their lifted trucks and stupid-low cars, and moved out to Cali, perhaps at the whim of some Rap "Artist" whom they idolized, had never met, had no intentions of understanding, and took at face value, for the words he spoke, not what he actually said.

So anyway - Now there are lots of Jap/German cars, and even some Chinese ones around... but equally as many older folk who just don't care enough to buy anything else, and they stick with what they have/know - Domestix.

PS - there are even some Chinese tractors and farm equipment around here.. Those few farmers and plot-owners that utilize them are the few smart ones that realized that even when they break, they're still cheaper than just buying a US-named one.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Christ

Around here, as a youngin, there were no imports to speak of. The Fast and The Furious came out, as well as some lesser known substrates of the same non-sense, and BOOM. Rice Explosion.

Now that I'm older, and most of the tards have moved on to the city, hoping to make something of their lacking education and utter disdain for society, it's a lot calmer around here. The newest generation here seems to be somewhat more intelligent than most of mine ever was, at least in this area. I think we got those well-mannered Californians, and the idiots from my Gen took their lifted trucks and stupid-low cars, and moved out to Cali, perhaps at the whim of some Rap "Artist" whom they idolized, had never met, had no intentions of understanding, and took at face value, for the words he spoke, not what he actually said.

So anyway - Now there are lots of Jap/German cars, and even some Chinese ones around... but equally as many older folk who just don't care enough to buy anything else, and they stick with what they have/know - Domestix.

PS - there are even some Chinese tractors and farm equipment around here.. Those few farmers and plot-owners that utilize them are the few smart ones that realized that even when they break, they're still cheaper than just buying a US-named one.

Oh good God Nooooooo!!!

Now I have to count to ten...

1...2...
2...
2...

1...
4...
5...

6...
7...

7...
We are not getting a good buy, by purchasing Chinese made anything. Why do you think China-Mart is so big? no no no .. Chinese Products have robbed the middle class of more wealth than anything in all of American history, and we really need to treat their imports the way they do our exports, and lets not even get me going about Chinese's methods of regulating exchange rates on the US Dollar! We need FAIR TRADE, not trade that forces all of our good paying jobs to go to a country in which if a person calls the leader a dirty name he finds himself in PRISON making FREE stuff for China-Mart.

Wait- Korea will be our next "China", at least in cars they might be.

Vent over.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Oh good God Nooooooo!!!

Now I have to count to ten...

1...2...
2...
2...

1...
4...
5...

6...
7...

7...
We are not getting a good buy, by purchasing Chinese made anything. Why do you think China-Mart is so big? no no no .. Chinese Products have robbed the middle class of more wealth than anything in all of American history, and we really need to treat their imports they way they do our exports, and lets not even get me going about Chinese's methods of regulating exchange rates on the US Dollar! We need FAIR TRADE, not trade that forces all of are good paying jobs to go to a country in which if a person calls the leader a dirty name he finds himself in PRISON making FREE stuff for China-Mart.

Wait- Korea will be our next "China", at least in cars they might be.

Vent over.

While in many cases, this is true, it's not always true. Frankly, I've seen/bought chinese/taiwanese/japanese "crap" as many call it, that has FAR better quality than the US equivalent.

[cfg83]

Christ -

Originally Posted by Christ

While in many cases, this is true, it's not always true. Frankly, I've seen/bought chinese/taiwanese/japanese "crap" as many call it, that has FAR better quality than the US equivalent.

Hee hee, I wonder if it was made on equipment shipped out of Mexican factories that were formerly in US Factories :

A New Giant Sucking Sound - December 13, 2001

In Mexico, other shrinking sectors include shoes, tires, apparel and auto parts. The Big Three are moving auto components to China from both Mexico and the United States. General Electric, which over the years has moved a lot of US jobs to Mexico, is now moving production of mini-bar refrigerators from there to China. An executive of SCI Systems, which employs 10,000 in Guadalajara, told Business Week: "I'm an absolute believer in this country, but anything that is really price-sensitive is considering moving lock, stock and barrel to Asia."

CarloSW2

[Jammer]

Christ: The issue is all of the millions of jobs Americans have lost to China because they do not compete fairly and use what amounts to slave labor. People get locked up for lifetimes and are put to work in prison. Their money exchange rate is said by many experts to be stacked in their favor. No matter how bad or good the quality is (and I agree China's quality is all over the map) it still boils down to the simple act of buying their products has already resulted in more plants closing in America and moving to China that in the next few years many of us are fearful for the nation. We can not be a strong nation with only service jobs, history has shown we have to MAKE AND EXPORT THINGS (OTHER THAN GOOD JOBS) over seas.

I pray I live to see jobs come back, but until the playing field gets more fair I can see no way we can win unless Americans simply stop buying so much imported stuff and starts buying American stuff whenever possible.

We all are free to choose. But how long will we have these freedoms at the rate were going now? I have read much about how they set up their money exchange rate, and many "experts" claim that's a big reason for their inexpensive products (slave labor helps too).

I see you as one of the good guys and I'm sorry if I over reacted. It's just that my posse sees the simple act of comparing products in a store to see where they are made, is much like recycling, or being green for our environment (except what I speak of deals with our country, and being "green" often deals with issues that impact the entire world)- we need to support some Americans products or what will happen to us? It's got many pretty spooked right now due to the shortage of jobs in much of this country.

Oh well, I have not sleep in over 36 hours due to chronic pain, so I'm sorry to act all stuffy. I wish you the best dude.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Christ: The issue is all of the millions of jobs Americans have lost to China because they do not compete fairly and use what amounts to slave labor. People get locked up for lifetimes and are put to work in prison. Their money exchange rate is said by many experts to be stacked in their favor. No matter how bad or good the quality is (and I agree China's quality is all over the map) it still boils down to the simple act of buying their products has already resulted in more plants closing in America and moving to China that in the next few years many of us are fearful for the nation. We can not be a strong nation with only service jobs, history has shown we have to MAKE AND EXPORT THINGS (OTHER THAN GOOD JOBS) over seas.

I pray I live to see jobs come back, but until the playing field gets more fair I can see no way we can win unless Americans simply stop buying so much imported stuff and starts buying American stuff whenever possible.

We all are free to choose. But how long will we have these freedoms at the rate were going now? I have read much about how they set up their money exchange rate, and many "experts" claim that's a big reason for their inexpensive products (slave labor helps too).

I see you as one of the good guys and I'm sorry if I over reacted. It's just that my posse sees the simple act of comparing products in a store to see where they are made, is much like recycling, or being green for our environment (except what I speak of deals with our country, and being "green" often deals with issues that impact the entire world)- we need to support some Americans products or what will happen to us? It's got many pretty spooked right now due to the shortage of jobs in much of this country.

Oh well, I have not sleep in over 36 hours due to chronic pain, so I'm sorry to act all stuffy. I wish you the best dude.

I'm well aware of the shortage of jobs in this country. I've been out of work since November of last year, collecting unemployment the whole time. When that runs out, I go back to working (most likely) as a self-employed nut, paying taxes on money that doesn't get reported, because I'm a "good" citizen (read as: I'm a "good" SS number...)

I'm all for patriotism and supporting America, but at the same time, the world economy is more important than that of any one country, and while it may be less environmentally and morally responsible to buy cheaply built and priced products from China, I still do so when it's fiscally better for me.

There is the National Economy, but there's the Economy in my pocket, as well. If I don't have the money to buy the overpriced American crap, I don't have the money. When it comes down to American and starving or Chinese and Food on the table, I pick whatever lets me eat at the end of the day. Call me whatever you want, but that's just the way it is.

In the mean time, Americans are losing work because we refuse to buy over priced American products when often, their foreign counterparts are of similar or superior quality... then again, I've been a part of the American workforce for ~10 years... I've seen lots and lots of dissatisfied people who can't live within their means, insist that they're working too hard and being paid too little, yet they often are found slacking around until the bell for quittin' time rings. They don't appreciate the dollars they do earn, because they feel entitled to something more, for doing nothing.

The era of the "hard working American", sadly, is nearing it's end, IMO. There are too many lazy people who have this feeling of entitlement, and none of them will even do what's asked for what's offered. Go to China, Japan (not so much anymore, from what I'm told), and several countries who aren't as "well off" as America, and you'll find a completely different attitude. Those people appreciate the opportunity to make a living as best they can on what's offered, and they work damn hard for it, gladly, knowing that it means they can eat and live to work another day. They don't piss and moan about not receiving an undeserved merit raise, or sit and complain that they didn't get that last-minute vacation approval so they could go drinking on Friday instead of upholding their duties at work.

Cost of Labor is a major component of why companies are moving to China, but there are other factors involved as well, that people refuse to see/admit to. When's the last time you heard someone honestly say that they were just too lazy to go to work? That's a factor, though noone will ever tell you that. they'll make up some excuse about how they're sick, etc...

I've had several jobs where there WERE NO sick days. You had 5 vacation days a year for the first 2 years, use 'em up foolishly, and they're gone. Get sick and take off work after that, you're fired. That was one of the best companies I've ever worked for. The bosses commanded respect, and the workers actually worked. We were paid a fair salary for the amount of work that we had to do, and had full benefits, another luxury IMO.

On top of all that, employee wages aren't even the largest practical reason for businesses moving overseas. CEO's need new cars. Plain and simple. What's the best way to liquefy $1.5 million dollars from your business' capital? Hire cheaper labor, get rid of the more expensive guys. Then, go buy your over priced car that you won't drive anyway, because driving is just a burden when you have a Chauffeur, and the Chauffeur and you both won't fit in a Ferrari.

/informative rant

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Full size pickups are still VERY popular here...

Notice how that little chunk of Detroit's loaded marketing strategy slipped into your brain, probably without you even noticing? "Full size", as though you're being cheated if you get something smaller, instead of simply "large", or a more accurate "oversized".

But no doubt those are popular among certain market segments, just as SUVs are. But look at the overall market share, and how it has changed in the half century since the first VW Beetle reached these shores. From basically owning the market, US automakers slipped to under half - and most of the competition was selling mostly small to mid-sized cars.

And judging from what I notice on the roads, one of the most popular truck model in these parts is still the '80s-'90s Toyota pickup.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The issue is all of the millions of jobs Americans have lost to China because they do not compete fairly...

Yeah, it sure is unfair of those Chinese to make stuff that American businesses never bothered with - or if they did make it, never bothered to sell the stuff to ordinary people at prices they could reasonably afford.

Look at tools, for example. These days you can go into Harbor Freight or one of the other tool companies, and find the a range of tools - everything from simple autobody dollies to lathes & welders - that 20 or 30 years ago you'd have to order from a specialty house, at many times the price. Or tractors: if you wanted a small tractor for the family farm, you had to keep the old Allis-Chalmers or Massey-Ferguson running with spit & baling wire, 'cause American companies were only interested in big stuff.