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Old 06-09-2019, 04:45 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Other projects keep coming up or we needed to drive down to the valley over the weekend.

To be honest, as much as I like my Civic, I really did not want to work on her. Everything goes wrong and it is frustrating when something should be easy, but takes hours, or when I need to stop and look up instructions for something not included in the FSM and other guides.

Worse, everything regularly grinds to a halt because I need to order and wait on another part or tool.

More than anything, I worry that I will ruin something.

I have concerns. Noted. As we said in the Army, "You gotta deal with it!"

There were times when I needed to wait to work on the Civic, but I spent too much time recently trying to get the dents out of the roof of my Accord. However, I should be able to fix anything that I mess up there.

So, I cleaned the mating surfaces, cleaned out the water jacket the best that I could with Scotch Bright pads and a toothbrush, blew out the engine and the bolt holes, found the head gasket kit and other parts that I ordered, and realized that I only wrote out the disassembly instructions. They always say that assembly is reverse of disassembly, but with my engine, I want to make sure that I have everything right, and I need torque specs and stuff.

There are at least four dowel pin holes, but I only found two dowel pins. Fortunately, that is the correct number, but I only realized this after searching for others for a while, determining that none were sold up here, and it would be days before any would arrive. Apparently both are supposed to go on the exhaust side:



There are better diagrams, but this was the one provided in the first assembly instructions that I found on-line:



The guy in this video showed it and I adjusted it to be usable:

Everything checks out, but I suggest this one instead:


You wouldn't want to confuse a 3 and a 5 or a 7 and a 9.

It was surprisingly difficult to line up dowel pins and holes through a thirty-pound opaque cylinder head and then the dowel pins kept sticking in the head, so I would need to set down the head, pull out the pins, put them back in the block, align the gasket again, and start maneuvering the head again.

I got it on and then needed to pick it back up to secure the inner timing belt cover, got it back on, and then needed to pick it back up to move the intake manifold out of the way.

I had tried to follow Old School Funk's method for avoiding adjusting the timing belt, but I just do not understand how to make it work.
  1. You need to tighten the wire holding the camshaft sprocket and the timing belt to a broom as tight as possible. It cannot move at all.
  2. If you have it that tight, you run risk of breaking the wire. Then what?!
  3. You need to have the head machined and they need to move it from top dead center. How do you move it back without the camshaft sprocket, which is secured to the timing belt and a broom?

I always have difficulty getting everything aligned just right. It seems like the engine goes from one tooth short to five teeth too far every single time. It seems the camshaft sprocket is one tooth off, but the crankshaft sprocket is several teeth off. I guess that it shifted when I detached the camshaft sprocket from the broom and timing belt in order to adjust the head.

Now I am waiting on a new backscratcher so I can adjust the top and bottom separately:



It should be here Tuesday, which is frustrating, because I do not have any clients Monday, and I really want to finish this.

I spent all day Friday working on this. On Saturday I took my brother to the farmer's market and when I got home Mom told me my sister's dog died unexpectedly. My sister used to say that was really my dog.

I kept trying to work on my Civic, but I was useless.

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Old 06-09-2019, 09:38 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:42 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Indeed. He may have eaten my $30 fan and my backpack, but I loved him!
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:28 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
...I had tried to follow Old School Funk's method for avoiding adjusting the timing belt, but I just do not understand how to make it work.
I used his method too. The wire was more than vigorous enough. I used to longest curtain rod and lashed it down so it wouldn't move. I found that the belt in the sprocket were not as susceptible to getting misaligned as I expected they would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
...You need to have the head machined and they need to move it from top dead center. How do you move it back without the camshaft sprocket, which is secured to the timing belt and a broom?
This was tricky for me. I spent a lot of time turning the cam and watching the lifters and figuring out where the correct start position was. Obviously it's really important that the crank pulley not get turned and that the Pistons are on the exact position they were in when you pulled the head off. You'll get it if you're patient careful.

What do you mean adjusting the top and bottom separately? I don't understand. And I don't recognize that tool, which isn't surprising cuz I'm not extremely experienced.

Hang in there!

I kept trying to work on my Civic, but I was useless.[/QUOTE]
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 06-10-2019, 02:48 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

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Neither the head nor the block are at top dead center and they are not at the same degree, either. I could use that tool to line up the head with the mark I have on the timing belt, but I think it would be easier just to bring both to TDC separately.

It is not a big deal, just frustrating that I need to wait for a new tool, although I could have used it with previous projects.

Also it seems the HX has a thicker intake manifold than other submodels, or just the ones that I have seen had aftermarket ones. I wish that I could get a video of putting the nut in the middle of the manifold, the space is only about an inch square, it is a pain just to get it in position without dropping it. I think that I bought ratcheting wrenches just because of this. Even so, I only get about two or three clicks, and then I need to bring it back, and I need to keep my finger on it most of the time so that it stays tight.

I swear that it took half an hour.

It would have been even worse without a random tip that I recently picked up from Shouty. I put a piece of plastic bag between the nut and wrench like a gasket and it held it in place.

Well, I hope that everything is going well for everyone else. Please take care.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:24 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
...It would have been even worse without a random tip that I recently picked up from Shouty. I put a piece of plastic bag between the nut and wrench like a gasket and it held it in place...
Best little tool tip of the week right there! I remember well trying to get into that spot between the manifold in the block on my engine. I wish I'd known this then.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 06-13-2019, 03:31 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I was up and working on my car before 06 yesterday. I had hoped to just slide spacers between the head and the block to make it easier to put back together, but I could not make it work. I brought both the head and the block back to TDC, bolted on the head, and put the timing belt back on. Then I made my brother's breakfast and this for me:

It was delicious!

I could not remember what was next, so I watched the video again, but strangely, the video was back before putting in the head bolts. I swear that it was an hour later that I remembered the next step according to the FSM, all of this:



Apparently Honda believes in big steps. There are seven steps for the head gasket installation before #1, one of those refers to another section with 11 steps, and of course that refers to other sections.

I had printed that and left it on my car, but all that I had left to do was bolt the EGR chamber on again.

The Fel-Pro kit does not contain the EGR valve gasket, even though Honda says to replace it.

I made an effort to clean out the EGR system, but could not find my wire brush. It had plenty of carbon, but was not plugged like the last time.

The next step is to install the exhaust, but there is a crack on my manifold. I looked into welding it and this page by Napa says that welding iron is extremely difficult, but their extreme temperature paste is easy to use!

I had another problem, some of the threads on the intake manifold studs are stripping. It took me a while to get the nut threaded on one of them, but one is just too messed up, and I do not have any idea why. The threads are flattened!

I did not even know what the studs were called. I figured out that and then read about using a die to fix the threads here.

They said that Napa sold the kit, but I could not find anything relevant in their inventory. I wanted to run there before my appointment, but I did not have enough time, so I was early [for once]. I tried to end the session right on-time and hurry out of there, but the family needed to discuss scheduling. Also, what size die did I need? What is the thread pitch?

I hurried to Ace, which also closed at 1800, and discovered that a 10mm bolt is 7 x 1.0. I didn't have time to go to Napa, so I found the die, but it was closing time, so I put it back.

It is an inch in diameter and I did not think it would fit. Google said that Lowe's had a kit for $24.98. I like Lowe's, they automatically give me a Veteran's discount!

The site said the kit was on aisle 59, bay 13, which only had measuring tapes and sharpies. I looked through the entire area and everywhere else I thought it might be.

Nothing.

I did not see a single employee, either.

Forget these guys! I went to Home Depot!

As I walked in I realized that I did not even look up the kit. I walked up to the first place I decided to look and they had a $30 kit right on the end. I couldn't find a cheaper kit, but it had half-inch dies, which did fit, although the handles and stuff would not. They did not have the JB Weld, so I sat down to figure out who did. Their website did not show it, neither did Lowe's, Ace, Autozone, O'Reilly's, Advance, Cal Ranch, or even Napa.

Wait, what?

If you search Napa's site for JB Weld Extreme Heat you do not get anything. In fact, Google only shows it being sold on Walmart's marketplace, Amazon, and eBay, but Napa has a page about it!

That linked to the product.

Napa was closed and it said you cannot install the part for 24 hours, so I really wanted to take care of that immediately, but the universe does not care about my timeline.

I bought the kit, but I could not fit the die onto the threads. I tried to figure out the rest of the steps and decided to write out all of them, but I got lost referring to different sections. I bought the JB Weld this morning and could not find my drill, so I tried to use a grinding bit with my cordless screwdriver, but the battery quickly died. I do not have any idea when I last saw the charger. I ran to Ace and bought a file, not realizing that I needed to purchase the handle separately. It was a 6" taper file, so I was supposed to buy a Type B handle, but that was way too big, so I dropped the battery from my cordless screwdriver, and used that as a handle.

I counted 2,000 strokes. It was about the 1/8th of an inch wide that the instructions required, but that just did not seem adequate.

Then I remembered the Dremel that Mom had me buy her, even though she refuses to use it. I wore out six tips, but in ten minutes I had a beautiful channel a quarter-inch wide.

You know how it says to wait 24 hours before installing?

I installed it and then added the putty--after reinstalling the exhaust pipes. So far, I am missing:

One nut for the exhaust manifold, one nut attaching the exhaust manifold to the first exhaust pipe, one bolt attaching the exhaust to the bracket, and two more nuts attaching the second pipe to a second bracket.

Hopefully at least some of those turn up. I already replaced one nut on the exhaust manifold and I believe that fits the last two, so at least I have the part number.

I also had two bolts under the car. I do not know where they go!

With my exhaust installed with all of the fasteners that I had on hand, I changed a glove, and opened up the JB Weld.

Apparently you need to move that into a larger container. I cut the top half off a paper cup and used that. It seemed to want to stick to my glove more than the manifold, but I felt that I had it packed in pretty well.

Unfortunately, I was twenty minutes late for my appointment, half an hour away. I called, apologized, and asked if we could reschedule. The mom said she was too busy, saying she would just see me next week.

Now what do I do?

The next steps are to adjust the valve clearance and install the head cover and gasket, but is it okay to work on the engine while the putty is curing?

Well, it cures in 2 - 4 hours, you just cannot install the part for 24, so hopefully I can resume work this afternoon.

Harbor Freight has a die kit for $16.49 and that includes an 8 x 1.0 die, so hopefully that fixes the threads enough to use my DeWalt die.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I need a nap just from reading that.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:08 PM   #59 (permalink)
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don't waste money and time welding or JB welding the exhaust manifold. it won't hold. Normal welding will probably not hold on the iron, and JB Weld will never be able to take all the shaking and Heat. You unfortunately are going to need a new manifold. The crack is probably Upstream of your primary oxygen sensor, correct? It's going to mess up your air fuel ratio and that's going to cause other problems for both emissions and engine operation. This is one of those situations where you can have to bite the bullet and buy the part.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 06-20-2019, 09:26 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

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90 day: 37.1 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,229
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I never liked this intake stud! I am glad it is out!


I know that I can do headspace and timing with a 10mm wrench, a flathead screwdriver, and go\no-go gauges, but it looked like it required three hands, so I figured $13 was a small price to pay to make one part of my life more tolerable. We would be at my sister’s, so I figured that I would have it shipped a shorter distance, and then know that I had it sooner. Well, our plans fell through, and Mom was not feeling well, so we returned early. I tried to change the shipping address, but it was too late, so I canceled and made a second order, using Mom’s address.

Amazon canceled it, but kept asking me irrelevant questions so they could deliver the first one to my sister’s house. I talked to an employee who supposedly took care of everything, but nothing changed for two days. I finally had it on Tuesday, but I failed to write out the instructions ahead of time. It is a pain to chase down all of the endless references to other sections.

For some reason, I use WordPerfect on my desktop, but have Office on my laptop. I could not sleep, so I worked on it in my room, thinking that it would be great to process words the way that I am supposed to.

Word constantly messed up the formatting and 90% of the time, when I tried to fix it, it did something inexplicable.

So, I did the head space and timing, and had a difficult time separating the metal parts from the rubber parts on the valve cover bolts. I looked up a video where a guy did it easily, so I figured that I would keep trying, regardless of how long it took.

Four hours. It took me four hours for five bolts. The best part of my day was the second one that departed without further argument. The most exciting part of my day was realizing why the new rubber parts were so big--they came with new metal parts.

I do not know how long I spent trying to scrape the rubber off the metal. I only did that for one of them, but it took a ridiculously long time.

So, if you buy the Fel-Pro kit, just pop off the gaskets, and use the new ones.

The good thing about the video was that, unlike the Accord video that I watched, he did not use a hammer and a socket to put the new gaskets on the bolts, but he bolted them onto the engine, which gently pushed the gaskets in place.

I put the head cover gasket in place, put gasket maker in those four spots, and wrestled with the new spark plug gaskets, but I got them on.

Then I realized that my twenty-one pages of instructions only take me that far. I guess that I will be relying on “Installation is reverse of removal” for the rest.

I am getting close, right?

Right?!

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