Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-01-2019, 02:21 PM   #5921 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
wind/nuclear/context

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Wind on average shuts down several times daily, and if not shut down, operates at diminished capacity for long periods of time. Solar shuts down a minimum of once per day, and too suffers from diminished capacity depending on weather.

A few examples of plants shutting down is not indicative of a systemic problem. If it were a serious problem, we would see nuclear power diminishing rather than growing faster than solar/wind. We would also see lower capacity factors rather than the very steady 80%+ over the past 2 decades.

Wind capacity factor may be improving, but that has more to do with it being very poor to begin with ~30%.

It's silly to imply that what we need to implement today is technology we hope will be developed in the future. We can only implement what is available today while still hoping for improvements in the future. To say that RE storage might be technically feasible and cost effective in the future doesn't give us direction on what to build now.
The United States didn't have it's first wind farm until 1980.Those early turbines were miniscule by comparison to today's state-of-the-art.
Nuclear facilities are rated in the 1,000-MW range?
I don't think anyone's under the illusion that renewables will supplant more 'conventional' power generation in the near-term.
Climate-wise,it needs to happen as fast as it can.
Grid-scale storage is cost-effective today,if referenced to 'reality' pricing.Of course it will struggle competitively,as long as 'conventional' sources continue to use Earth as a sewer.The implication that today's storage was not 'cost effective' would fail upon examination of the facts.
Under a strict legal interpretation,it's technically a violation of the US Constitution to operate any fossil-fuel power-plant today.Those who do it would be defined under US law as 'public enemies'.That goes for any Congressperson,Supreme Court Judge,or President,party to the crime.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-01-2019, 02:37 PM   #5922 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
best

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Suppose you want to melt salt. What's the best way to do that?
'best' is kind of subjective,but I'll take a stab at this and suggest that, concentrated-solar would have the least potential for harm.
Once the facility has broken even,the fuel source is virtually free.Stored molten salt allows power production after sunset.An entire facility could be dedicated exclusively for 100% stored-energy,night time power production.
As only part of a market basket of providers,should it 'cloud over',other contributing power providers would take up the slack.
You'd just engineer for it,as those off the grid must currently do.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (06-03-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 02:45 PM   #5923 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
where I live

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Way too diffuse by the time it gets here. Takes a desert full of mirrors to do anything. And totally useless 3 months a year where I live.
Consider a grid intertie,from Terra del Fuego,to the Arctic Circle,and contiguous,East-to-West,globally.
Kilowatts without borders.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2019, 02:50 PM   #5924 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
quanta

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
How much area? How much annual production? What annual capacity factor?
What numbers did you come up with?
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2019, 02:52 PM   #5925 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,073

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,332
Thanked 2,748 Times in 2,034 Posts
I'm in favor of more robust grid intertie, so long as the economic and security benefits pencil out. If it's a bridge to nowhere, then I'm out.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (06-01-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 03:08 PM   #5926 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
primary power

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
So Right now the USA is using 27,175 TeraWatt hours per year of total primary energy. Your favorite reference (Solution Project) states that if we could electrify everything in the best way possible we would need only half. And you want to supply half of that from Nevada with solar. How much land area to average 7,000 TWh per year. 800 GigaWatts continuous average?
.
5,333 of the 500 MW nameplate SolarStar state of the art solar PV farms. Which has crystalline panels on trackers and an automated wash system for a capacity factor of 31% on 5 square miles in a 3,000 foot tropical desert.
.
26,666 square miles.
.
Nevada = 110,567 square miles. So more like 25% of the land area will need to be covered with panels.
.
The current installed price for grid scale pv in the USA is about $3/ Watt.
.
$2.4 Trillion. For half of the USA demand if we could spend trillions more to retrofit everything.
.
Which makes 3X too much power at noon on a perfect day. And nothing all night every night.
Why don't we start out by limiting the discussion to only US electric power consumption.
The other industrial energy consumption can be handled in a separate discussion.
Renewables can carry the entire load.And they will over time.And we've been given 30-years to get the job done.
At $2.4-trillion,that would be 68-cents per day,per capita,to pay for it,in 2019 dollars.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (06-03-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 03:15 PM   #5927 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
troubles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
As long as were on the subject of wind intermittency and capacity factor: Here is a post from the thread at endless-sphere from the guy that has been telling us about the troubles with the South Australia grid since they prematurely shut down most of their coal plants in favor of wind and solar.
.
note... the little, jagged, orange and blue noise signal at the very bottom is the charge and discharge of the BigF'nBattery.
.
Another day,..another month,..
......and another classic example why wind & solar force UP the cost of electricity supply..
Courtesy of south Australia with their “surplus” , 2+ GW, of wind and solar generation capacity...
. Note the legend..RED is GAS,...purple is IMPORTS !
That's nothing compared to their coal troubles!
And you may just want to burn all your cost data.That's all calculated by unicorns.'voodoo economics.'
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (06-03-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 03:32 PM   #5928 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,697
Thanks: 3,675
Thanked 4,860 Times in 3,869 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead
Consider a grid intertie,from Terra del Fuego,to the Arctic Circle,and contiguous,East-to-West,globally.
www.geni.org:GENI-us Letter 2015-08
The Global Power Grid Solutionl


__________________
.
Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken!
_________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (06-01-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 03:58 PM   #5929 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
truths

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Ivanpah concentrated solar farm cost $2.18 Billion for a nameplate of 392 MW = $5.56/ Watt. Nameplate.
.
The capacity factor is running at 21%. So the actual pricing is more like $25/ Watt.
.
But it does supply electricity for a few hours after dark due to the thermal storage.
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpa...Power_Facility
.
Everybody::: Please speak in truths. Fact check your information. Wishful thinking that is not based on actual data and science is spinning us astray.
That's a tall order when all the books are cooked.And it's why we're in the trouble we're in.Reality hasn't been represented in the ledger sheets for all of my lifetime.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (06-03-2019)
Old 06-01-2019, 04:01 PM   #5930 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,642
Thanks: 16,675
Thanked 5,677 Times in 3,404 Posts
security

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I'm in favor of more robust grid intertie, so long as the economic and security benefits pencil out. If it's a bridge to nowhere, then I'm out.
The Pentagon says we don't have any security without them.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
lies, opinion, reality, scam

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com