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Old 09-24-2019, 05:35 PM   #7001 (permalink)
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So, four major groups? Thanks, it's hard for me to distinguish the various posters. I read them all in the same voice. It's all jibber-jabber to me. But let me address the third group:
Quote:
And then there are those that act like this climate thing is new information.
That's the thing it is new information.

The most productive dinner conversation I've had in decades included the grandchildren of a guy I went to high school (and worked at the feed & seed company) with. Instead of the usual intrafamily squabbling, I led with 'don't believe the teenagers, the world won't end in ten years'. And they went right down the space weather rabbit-hole with me. The mom said she'd never heard they talk about it before. I said nobody was talking about it four years ago, and they hadn't absorb the old way of thinking.

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Old 09-24-2019, 05:52 PM   #7002 (permalink)
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You're describing me in some of those comments, some of which would be an inaccurate description of what I have said.

Following my reasoning requires an understanding of my values.

I value humanity above other species for the following reasons:
  • I'm a member of the human species
  • Humanity is the most important species on earth
  • Humans are the only ones with a notion of good vs bad (values)
  • Humans are the only ones with the ability to imagine the future and take action to shape it

So, the wellbeing of people is most important to me.

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I got the distinct impression that some here are more concerned with the dollars and cents of it than anything else- better to do nothing than threaten the dollars and cents.
To your first assertion, that some are more concerned with economics than anything else, you might be right. Economics and well-being are inextricably linked. In other words, improve the economic output, and you improve well-being. Sure, some of that improvement in economic output takes the form of Yachts, which most of us would agree is an extravagance, but increased economic output also takes the form of more people getting sufficient nutrition in places that didn't previously.

There are some people that think (mistakingly) that if there were only 2 people left in the world, they could split the entire world's wealth and be fabulously well off. The problem is that wealth exists in the activities of other humans, not in a self-existing wealth pie.

Quote:
I got the distinct impression that some here don't think anything can be done even if there is climate change- and that was a big IF.
Just thinking about it as a regular person that has experienced a lot of weather when outside, I wouldn't know where to begin to change the outdoor thermostat. Standing a few feet back from a campfire, I can hardly tell I've had any impact on the environmental conditions. If the problem were easy, we'd have solved it.

There is a lot of hubris to think we can alter things without unintended consequences. The whole reason CO2 has skyrocketed is because people struggled to harness the power of fossil fuels, and it had consequences that at the time were not within the realm of perception. When we "fix" climate change, what unintended consequences will we be dealing with? Is it unreasonable to question what the cost (in all meanings) of a fix will be as a way to avoid negative unintended consequences, some of which might be worse than the initial disease?

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With 7,500,000,000 and growing em effers infesting the planet, some even think we're at risk for UNDERpopulation issues!
Based on the assumption that humans are most important, a dwindling population is certainly a bigger problem than too many people. A negative population growth rate is unsustainable, and if not addressed, would result in extinction. You can't have 0 population and exist at the same time, but there is no hard existential limit to maximum population.

Using the same capacity to imagine the future as climate change alarmists, I can envision a future in which population dwindles, and brings with it all the reductions in well-being that small populations entail (less wealth, less able bodied people, aging population, less innovation, less exploration, less diversity...). To envision a future where population dwindles does not imply that our numbers are appropriate now, just as the absence of net catastrophe from global warming now does not imply that we won't suffer in the future.

Quote:
Or that it is up to OTHERS to do something: government, business, religious, ANYONE but themselves.
Without concerted and enforced effort globally, there is no hope to affect meaningful change. The earth doesn't care if you eat vegan and don't own a car. That impact isn't measurable. Dying is the "greenest" thing any of us could do, and the climate doesn't care.

Quote:
I've recently seen reports of youth angry with their elders for creating and doing little to nothing to mitigate the sh!thole they stand to inherit.
Youth are ignorant; that's why they are so loud. Once they get out of their parent's pocketbook they begin to realize "well-being" doesn't fall from the sky, and it isn't a right.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:02 PM   #7003 (permalink)
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Well Ben Davidson spilled the beans on how the climate change cult is going to fall apart.
Not that it was much of a secret.
It seems like the ipcc and the climate change cult have been diverging for a while now and the ipcc finally drew a line in the sand and it looks like the cultists are not being good little useful idiots and falling in line.
And we all know what happens when useful idiots outlive their usefulness.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:30 PM   #7004 (permalink)
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https://unherd.com/2019/09/the-new-h...conservatives/

Quote:
The rise of the hippie conservatives
An unexpected political coalition is rejecting materialism in favour of "getting back to what really matters" BY Freddie Sayers

These Trump-friendly Right-wingers are certainly not cheerleaders for Extinction Rebellion or Greta Thunberg; at first glance they seem the polar opposite of hippies, who originally defined themselves against the “military-industrial complex” and its evil end product, the war in Vietnam.

But yes, if you can get past the tone of voice, there is something hippie about these new Conservatives, defining themselves against boundary-less financial markets, the over-mighty power of technology and global corporations, and the creep of commercial thinking into all aspects of our lives. In a sense, they are more truly ‘counter-cultural’ than the climate protestors, who are celebrated as virtuous by almost everybody in power.
edit: Styxhexenhammer drops a big black pill. You have to click though to see it because language — Greta Thunberg Says Stuff, or Something, I Dunno

https://youtu.be/-Mxzr6x1WzU
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:50 PM   #7005 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Maybe we should move to Mars well before that.
Can I take lots of CO2 to help warm the planet? Yes, even I see the need for warmth on Mars. Problem is, so much CO2 will be needed to warm Mars, that, even with good quantities of nitrogen & oxygen, necessary CO2 levels will poison us.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:08 PM   #7006 (permalink)
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:04 PM   #7007 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Sure, I left out the km unit.....
Nah, you muffed three times in a row..... & still didn't quote me right.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:22 PM   #7008 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litesong View Post
Nah, you muffed three times in a row..... & still didn't quote me right.
I copied/pasted your exact text in my last response, just in case your need to be pedantic must be fulfilled. Now you're deflecting all of my calls to provide a substantive response, perhaps for good reason.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:23 PM   #7009 (permalink)
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Don't feed the... what was that again?

Scott Adams Says:A Message for Children About Climate Change
Posted September 23, 2019
Quote:
When you ask adults about nuclear energy, expect them to have old understanding about it, meaning they don’t know the newer nuclear energy technologies are the safest energy on the planet.

What I told you today is not always understood even by adults. You are now smarter than most adults on the topic of climate.

My generation has a lot of faith in your generation. You will be the most educated and effective humans of all time. My generation (and a few generations younger than me) already has the fixes to address climate risks coming online. Your generation will finish the job.
https://youtu.be/GiD04TRwebQ
An interview with Greta's father Svante. It sounds like the parents were starting to get pushback on immigration activism, and lo!— the daughter led the way.

Now he's going on about were don't deserve electric cars, or cars at all.

edit: It sounds, as Dr. Steve Turley describes, the activist left is trying to harness [failing] globalist institutions to their cause.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:57 PM   #7010 (permalink)
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In case you didn't know Greta, here is a full interview to get acquainted with the next Nobel prize winner.
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https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74
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