The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

Then, if you need to tunnel to create a habitat, you may wonder why we don't do it here. So much easier.

So why would we do that on the Moon, or Mars?

Magnetism.

You're saying the Deep Underground Military Bases don't exist?

[oil pan 4]

This sums it up fairly well.

[RedDevil]

I took a peek, and I'm not disappointed.
The fix is easy. Change 'Climate' to 'Big Oil' and 'Nuclear' to 'Clean' and we have a winner.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

I took a peek, and I'm not disappointed.
The fix is easy. Change 'Climate' to 'Big Oil' and 'Nuclear' to 'Clean' and we have a winner.

Unfortunately clean energy does not achieve anywhere near the scale of the carbon energy we are now addicted to. Additional solar and wind build out is not quite keeping up with the growth of energy consumption. And new hydro is being increasingly frowned upon. Despite the best efforts of some Euro countries like Germany, the World is still actually using more carbon energy year on year as we chase growth and poor countries try to rise up.
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[RedDevil]

That graph ends 2 years ago (and we've already seen it several time to boot), also it puts everything on a global scale. If you take recent data and zoom in on countries like Sweden you'll find renewables can and do make up a large part of the energy market.

But not enough yet. It must grow big time.
Also, we need to electrify the transport sector. That would reduce its power consumption 2 to 3 times for the same utility.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Allowing a pass for developing countries to pollute and consume fossil fuels itself is an admission that fossil fuel consumption and wealth/well-being go hand and hand. If we're talking about reducing CO2 emissions, we're talking about burning less hydrocarbons, and therefore reducing wealth and well-being.

That is not correct - developing countries have leapfrogged past landlines, straight to cellphones. The IPCC says that we, the nations who exploited fossil fuels, need to help pay for ALL of us to leap forward past fossil fuels. There are so many upsides to renewable energy - mainly massive improvement is health and clean water and air - that we all will benefit by leaving fossil fuels behind.

We all have to do this, more or less at the same time - in order for ANYONE to avoid the huge impending and ACCELERATING challenges of our climate crisis.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I would rather read the IPCC reports than listen to some dumb high school kid who flies all over the world on jet planes tell us the end is near and how CO2 going to kill us all.
Nothing more than another dime a dozen bs filled virtue signaler.

Greta Thunberg does NOT fly, at all. And neither do her parents.

She SAILED across the Atlantic, in a racing yacht.

If you don't "get" where the challenges to our society's existence are coming from, in the destruction of the stable climate we had before we burned fossil fuels - then you should LISTEN TO THE SCIENTISTS, like Greta and the rest of us who accept the facts, are saying.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

That is not correct - developing countries have leapfrogged past landlines, straight to cellphones. The IPCC says that we, the nations who exploited fossil fuels, need to help pay for ALL of us to leap forward past fossil fuels. There are so many upsides to renewable energy - mainly massive improvement is health and clean water and air - that we all will benefit by leaving fossil fuels behind.

We all have to do this, more or less at the same time - in order for ANYONE to avoid the huge impending and ACCELERATING challenges of our climate crisis.

I don't think you quoted what you think you quoted. I wasn't talking about cell phones or technology; merely stating the obvious, that economics depends on fossil fuel consumption, and that is why developing countries are given a pass to consume whatever amount it takes for them to be considered "developed". Then they can join the rest of the people in feeling miserable, depressed, self-loathing, and consider themselves no-good exploiters of the oppressed.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

That graph ends 2 years ago (and we've already seen it several time to boot), also it puts everything on a global scale. If you take recent data and zoom in on countries like Sweden you'll find renewables can and do make up a large part of the energy market.

But not enough yet. It must grow big time.
Also, we need to electrify the transport sector. That would reduce its power consumption 2 to 3 times for the same utility.

I think you must be still conflating total primary ENERGY with total ELECTRICITY. Which is only a small part of the total energy the world uses...So we see a defensive reply that we have also seen many times before, that a chart from 2017 is totally outdated. Which it is not. Only one year has passed and growth of World energy consumption is still far outpacing actual added solar and wind PRODUCTION (which is also constantly conflated with added CAPACITY). There is only 1 year newer data possible. And please see that the newest chart that I just posted just came out for Germany and is showing the 2018 (we are still in 2019 by the way so there is no way to get a newer annual total) total primary energy by source. They are a World leader in spending per capita on solar and wind buildout and are now up to 4.6% of their ENERGY consumption from these sources. We are being admonished by the strikers to 'Tell the truth". Facts are facts.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

This sums it up fairly well.

Nice straw man argument you have there. That cartoon in no way reflects reality.

Facts are unaffected by your opinion, or mine. Science is the best understanding we have of reality. Science says that we must stop burning all fossil fuels within a decade or two, if we want to avoid the very worst effects.