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Old 06-26-2019, 12:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by All Darc View Post
Well, I would like to see what uncle Jordan.P would say about it...
Expend such money in a very pricey thing for a woman.

Would he say : What if man would demand such pricey thing as a symbol of love?

About hierarchy... couldn't we have hierarchy about less stupid and more noble things, like winsdom, intelligence, gifts, knowledge?

Use our Homo Sapiuens nature as excuse it's a dangerous things, since things like murder instint, rape instint and even torture, also belongs to human nature.
Must I remamber that human nature it's a sh...t ?
Uncle Jordan would say something along the lines of the fact that we can imagine a way that is better than it is, to conceptualize that better way using language, and to act toward that end is evidence of the divine individual, and gives rise to purpose and meaning. It would be a 90 min discussion going back several million years, with plenty of tangent thoughts along the way.

I would argue that rape and murder isn't necessarily intrinsic to humanity, but manifest in a few. I've not been tempted to do either, for instance, though the underlying motivation exist within me (anger, lust). Anyhow, merely observing and reporting how things work is not dangerous. Pointing out that hierarchy exists in other animals, and is useful for organizing behavior isn't dangerous.

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You're describing my life, except it's a mega-rare Airstream instead of a cave.
You have dreams of projects to complete, and of Arcimotos to own. You've got a bicycle and use that to facilitate exploring your surroundings. You have internet that allows you to explore intellectual pursuits. You're not satisfied to live in a cave and ponder to yourself.

I lived in the back of a Subaru for nearly two years by choice. Perhaps we both can be satisfied with fewer things than most, but we still have dreams which involve acquisition of things, and at the very least not losing what we already have.

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Old 06-26-2019, 12:56 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Redpoint, you are not a good example of human !
You are articulated, have good logic, able to put reason in front of human desire (at least in the forum discussians), despite the toilet past (was the school's principal sitting on it when it exploded???).

You can't judge human nature by judging the result of centuries of some civilization. You can see human nature, something more pure of it, in very primitive tribles in Africa, where murder and rape are very often.

I fully agree we must do not follow woman nature, for the sake of civilization. It's far easir to create a marginal/criminal than a reasonable person. The second one require decades of learning and good influence, good moral education, while the first just requires to do nothing.
Hierarchy to organioze behavior it's not the proble. The problem is the values used to define the hierarchy, the people with power. ALng history we can say it was used quite bad, giving power to crazy and evil people.

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Old 06-26-2019, 04:38 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I'm curious to know why I keep hearing about Redpoint's dislike of schools. From observing his posts I have a strong suspicion that we would get along quite well.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Salem, OR, schools are notorious for being wacist against people who are 'not brown enough'.

Prolly some intersectional feminism in there now, too.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
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My elementary had ~80 kids, and combined 2 grades for each teacher. Good school, and the others were fine too.

I'm mostly critical of the cost and basic structure of higher education. There's more value in something like Khan Academy than the old school method of paying through the nose to occupy space in a classroom, pay through the nose for the class textbooks, and be lectured by someone who may or may not be among the best at teaching the subject at hand.

What I really am opposed to is the hypocrisy and lack of critical thinking ability by administration. There's a facade of liberal and creative thinking, when in actuality there's agenda and intolerance.

Free speech zones... freedom of speech isn't a special privilege for those occupying a specific space, it's an intrinsic inalienable right to free thought.

I see value and purpose to higher education, but not in a general sense that everyone is entitled to it, or that everyone will benefit from it.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:54 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I didn't accused hin. He didn't did the act, but was more used by the other guys who commited the vandalism.
The punishment sounded way too much. That's why I asked if the school's principal was sitting in the toiled when it exploded.



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I'm curious to know why I keep hearing about Redpoint's dislike of schools. From observing his posts I have a strong suspicion that we would get along quite well.

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Old 06-26-2019, 07:06 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I didn not accused hin. He didn't did the act, but was more used by the other guys who commited the vandalism.
The punishment sounded way to much.
I'm fine with the punishment, and don't really see a way to get around the necessity of law enforcement to ally with some criminals to prosecute others.

The situation was taken more seriously in part by the somewhat recent OK City bombing. The vandalism was done to privately owned plastic toilets.

If you aren't helping a prosecuting attorney, you're the enemy of the prosecuting attorney, which is actually written into law (aiding and abetting). To simply have knowledge of those responsible for a felony and not assist in prosecuting is aiding in the felony, as defined by law. I dunno, I might be ok with that definition too.

Many exceptions to prosecuting people for aiding a felony are made, for instance when people fear for their safety if they turn state's witness.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:18 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My elementary had ~80 kids, and combined 2 grades for each teacher. Good school, and the others were fine too.

I'm mostly critical of the cost and basic structure of higher education. There's more value in something like Khan Academy than the old school method of paying through the nose to occupy space in a classroom, pay through the nose for the class textbooks, and be lectured by someone who may or may not be among the best at teaching the subject at hand.

What I really am opposed to is the hypocrisy and lack of critical thinking ability by administration. There's a facade of liberal and creative thinking, when in actuality there's agenda and intolerance.

Free speech zones... freedom of speech isn't a special privilege for those occupying a specific space, it's an intrinsic inalienable right to free thought.

I see value and purpose to higher education, but not in a general sense that everyone is entitled to it, or that everyone will benefit from it.
Yep, I think we pretty much see eye to eye on this one.

I dropped out of college because I was bored, unchallenged, and realized that a bachelors in chemistry only qualified me to go to grad school, which was not going to happen.

I took a job at the local Ford garage, which didn't last, got a job in a factory. I'm now in my third factory job, my income has on average been doubling every 2-3 years, but my mom still says I should go back to college and get a degree.

I've thought about doing some online schooling to get an engineering degree, which brings up the next criticism: I already know more about mechanical engineering just from working in manufacturing than a 4-year college grad in the field, but have no chance of every working as one without the magic piece of paper.
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:42 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I've seen several people go from new factory worker, to production lead, to maintenance tech, and after they completed an engineering degree, become an engineer.

Engineering is among the more legitimate fields of study in higher education. It isn't so open to interpretation and opinion, and there are occupations which require that knowledge.

I was working on completing an AA transfer degree while I pondered what field of study to major in, but lost interest while also advancing my IT career.

I'd have teachers that would skip sections of a sociology course because it didn't align with their agenda to teach that people with fewer economic means are only in that position due to oppression, and that other factors such as competence, or cultural values, has nothing to do with it.

It's one thing to be entitled to a myopic view of something, but entirely different if I'm paying to "be educated", but instead am paying to be indoctrinated. They need to be paying me if they want me to sit through propaganda.
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:55 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I've seen several people go from new factory worker, to production lead, to maintenance tech, and after they completed an engineering degree, become an engineer.

Engineering is among the more legitimate fields of study in higher education. It isn't so open to interpretation and opinion, and there are occupations which require that knowledge.

I was working on completing an AA transfer degree while I pondered what field of study to major in, but lost interest while also advancing my IT career.

I'd have teachers that would skip sections of a sociology course because it didn't align with their agenda to teach that people with fewer economic means are only in that position due to oppression, and that other factors such as competence, or cultural values, has nothing to do with it.

It's one thing to be entitled to a myopic view of something, but entirely different if I'm paying to "be educated", but instead am paying to be indoctrinated. They need to be paying me if they want me to sit through propaganda.
I went from an assembly line monkey, to department (retail food packaging) manager, but they didn't give me the manager's pay.

So I went to a different factory, steel manufacturing, as a solo assembler putting rock pickers and tractor snow plows together. The QAR at that plant was impressed with my attention to detail, so I got pulled into his deparment as a QC tech. I ended up taking care of all the SDS, a lot of ISO stuff, most of our internal document control, some quality engineering, as well as covering in the fab shop, prep line, shipping, and effectively being the assembly manager.

Four years later that company got a new GM whose first big move was to cut raises and benefits to save money, so now (November) I moved on to a different factory, still in QC, but better money and benefits, but way less responsibility, and frankly I'm so overqualified that most days I'm bored and have nothing to do after the first hour or two, which is why I've started looking into engineering programs.

We'll see what comes of it, and where the future holds. On a side note: this new job is the reason I found ecomodder as I'm now commuting 40 miles on the highway instead of going a mile or 2 across the little podunckville I live in.

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