Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > The Unicorn Corral
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Closed Thread  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #151 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 608
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
By the way I have tried some areodymatics on my Van.



And :



And:



So far: other than helping with cross winds and passing big rigs these are a big improvement over a stock van and I have driven 1000s of miles in vans...and the added rubber extras did not make the big improvement it was the original ground effect kit that came with this custom van...I love how much better it is on the road.

BUT so far if there was a improvement in MPG it was too small for me to note.

Rich

 
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #152 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,417
Thanks: 173
Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post
Forty I also fully believe our cars could get much better gas mileage. That they are rigged not to.

See Shell Opel as ONE proof of the possibility.
How much do you know about the exact circumstances of the Shell mileage competitions? Those cars were completely optimized for "driving like an old man"--that's how they got such good mileage.

OBD-II is not there to limit the fuel economy of modern cars. It is only an electric bus standard, in place so that a standard device can be plugged in and read diagnostic information about the vehicle.

If the manufacturers could simply tweak the intake system and get 20% better fuel economy, you'd better believe they'd do it in a heartbeat! They'd get much better CAFE credit (which would allow them to build more high-profit SUVs) and they could hit hard on advertising MPGs. There is no such tweak--at least, not that still passes emissions.

That's the closest to what you're talking about that actually exists: Lean burn. It isn't used any more because it produces high emissions, particular nitrides of oxygen. For a while, the emissions standards were lax enough that they could be passed while running lean burn (usually with some fancy and expensive catalysts), but standards have been tightened and LB can no longer meet them.

But that's not a problem with OBD-II, that's a problem with lean burn.

-soD
 
Old 09-14-2013, 08:10 PM   #153 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 608
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by some_other_dave View Post
How much do you know about the exact circumstances of the Shell mileage competitions? Those cars were completely optimized for "driving like an old man"--that's how they got such good mileage.

I even said so: a flying mile, at speed before they do any testing and I read it was at 30MPH.

OBD-II is not there to limit the fuel economy of modern cars. It is only an electric bus standard, in place so that a standard device can be plugged in and read diagnostic information about the vehicle.

Yes I know BUT with OBDII came a ton of sensors, most OBDI cars had only one O2 sensor OBDII have four, and the OBDI had chips that could be swapped, OBDII have to be flashed and you need special keys and codes to do so. It is night to day in changes, so yes the OBD interface IS a standard for readouts, BUT OBDII came with a lot of changes as well and is a marked point of that change.

If the manufacturers could simply tweak the intake system and get 20% better fuel economy, you'd better believe they'd do it in a heartbeat! They'd get much better CAFE credit (which would allow them to build more high-profit SUVs) and they could hit hard on advertising MPGs. There is no such tweak--at least, not that still passes emissions.

I don't buy that at all. Just as I don't buy that the car JUST happens to ware out certain parts, parts and service that keeps getting harder and harder to replace, and more and more costly to buy.


That's the closest to what you're talking about that actually exists: Lean burn. It isn't used any more because it produces high emissions, particular nitrides of oxygen. For a while, the emissions standards were lax enough that they could be passed while running lean burn (usually with some fancy and expensive catalysts), but standards have been tightened and LB can no longer meet them.

And I don't buy that either...there is too much money made by the oil companies, and the states in taxes on gas to allow any more than minor improvements in MPG..hear of the framer who converted all his machinery to Bio Diesel and lost the farm when the state came calling and wanted all the road taxes?



But that's not a problem with OBD-II, that's a problem with lean burn.

-soD
If they wanted to it could be done.
 
Old 09-15-2013, 08:23 AM   #154 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,417
Thanks: 173
Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
So you are convinced that all of the auto manufacturers are deliberately capping the fuel economy of their cars because of some vast conspiracy. Based on the fact that more sensors have been installed in car engines, and that a whole lot of fuel is used so a lot of money is spent.

OK, more power to you.

-soD
 
Old 09-15-2013, 09:37 AM   #155 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 608
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by some_other_dave View Post
So you are convinced that all of the auto manufacturers are deliberately capping the fuel economy of their cars because of some vast conspiracy. Based on the fact that more sensors have been installed in car engines, and that a whole lot of fuel is used so a lot of money is spent.

OK, more power to you.

-soD
Yes and from what I have read over the many years on tons of other web sites I am not alone.

Worst yet is the hundreds of suppression stories, here is one of them:

Documented case of Suppression
Thu, 2013-05-09 13:57


It took me YEARS to be smart enough to start to record every aspect of surveillance and suppression that occurred to me, so I could tell/inform/warn others about Vested Interest suppression and the techniques they use. 'They' are very good at cloaking their activities so that there is little 'proof' sufficient to stand up in court. Not that a single person has a hope of winning in whatever kangaroo court they'd manipulate anyway... but if enough people believe the truth, a grassroots movement can unseat these malignant parasites.

The key aspect applicable here is that there are 'levels' of suppression and the story you'll read below shows that the Vested Interest believe that the technology is practical and marketable, by the suppression level applied.

Here's an expose where a fast thinking man, with some connections, got a lucky enough to have proof to expose the fuel saving suppression. They have generously and bravely allowed us to publish their experiences. I've had MANY people tell me stories like this, but few are documentable and none would give me permission to share. In all aspects, Dell and Jay are remarkable people.

I first learned of this particular suppression event via a man who has set himself up with his own business selling his version of my HHO Cell. He and I enjoy a fun research collaboration that is advancing on-board electrolyzer technology to an efficiency and practicality well beyond anything else on the market. His business is doing quite well and has several distributors. One of his distributors is the man who wrote this narration, Dell.

I contacted him and asked if he'd share the case details with me and allow me to publish them. He agreed and this is what he has written so far. I will continue to add to this Blog as he reveals more. (my comments in parentheses).

I don't want you to feel like we're ignoring you but we felt like we should let the law run its course before we made any statement. So I'll bring you up to date at this time (May 9, 2013)...

This incident happened on April 3 (2013) when (to) our salesman who is the brother-in-law of my partner who works for the mines about 270 miles east of Reno.

Jay noticed that there was buses carrying workers from the town to the mine site and he thought this would be a good customer for our diesel unit.

He contacted the manager of the local bus operation and they got an appointment with the home office in Sacramento California which is about 120 miles west of Reno. I made up five diesel presentation manuals for Jay to take with him to the presentation.

What we didn't know was the bus company is probably the largest bus operation in the United States. We didn't hear anything from the bus company after about three weeks and they said they were looking in to the possibility of using our product on their buses.

Jay left his house which is about 15 miles north of Reno on April 3 on his way to Carson City which is about 30 miles south of Reno. As Jay came out of his driveway to go on to 395 he noticed two cars setting at the entrance to the freeway. Jay noticed the two cars as they followed him past Reno and on towards Carson City.

About halfway between Reno and Carson City one of the cars forced him off the road breaking his mirror on the driver side and scraping the side of the car and then blocking his exit. A black Hummer pulled in behind him and blocked his rear exit.

A big thug got out of the car and came up to the driver side of Jay's car and said open this window or I will break it out. Jay ran the window down and the thug was holding one of the presentations in his hand. Jay had written his name and phone number by hand on the bottom of the presentation and the thug pointed to it and said is this you? Jay says yes.

The thug said this stops now and here and you will not take this public and we know where you live. Then the thug took the presentation and slammed it up against Jay's chest.

Jay's father is a retired police officer and the most highly decorated in northern Nevada with many connections to the law department. Jay went straight to the DA and filed a complaint.

Within five hours they were able to lift this guy's fingerprints off the presentation which revealed his residence his name and who he works for. He lives in Richmond California and works for UNOCAL which stands for Union oil Company of California.

In 2005 Chevron bought UNOCAL. Jay got the license number of the car the thug was driving. Now this is where it starts to get interesting.

The car was a rental car from enterprise rentals. When the police called up enterprise and ask them about the car they said it'd never left the lot that day. The police decided to go down to enterprise and check it out and what they found was the car back in the paint shop but it had not been painted yet. And lo and behold there was evidence on the side of the car.

The police charged the thug with attempted manslaughter with a vehicle and reckless driving. They had him arrested and extradited to Nevada upon arrival he was put in jail.

Jay has a couple of buddies in the sheriffs department and when he asked them about this guy he was told they could not talk about the case. Don't know what that's all about but it is definitely spooky.

We believe this guy acted on his own as he was the northern Nevada and California sales representative for the oil company and probably saw $250,000 disappear yearly. That's all we have at this time if anything new turns up I will forward it to you. You have a good day now."

~ Dell

I will continue my conversation with Dell and update this Blog when there are further details. As you can see already, it's a dangerous business when Vested Interest thugs have feel like they can intimidate people at will.

This is not the world I want my grandchildren to grow up in and I will do everything in my power to fight for our freedoms, in this case against Vested Interest that values money over people and resources. They'd rather the world die from pollution than cut back on their established moneymaking investments.

Thank you Dell and Jay.


No conspiracy??

More: and yes there are counter stories here:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=hho+sup...ries&FORM=AWRE

And yes I have also considered that many are possible coverups for failure, but I also fear many are not.

Rich

Last edited by racprops; 09-15-2013 at 09:46 AM..
 
Old 09-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #156 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,092

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,307
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post
...Documented case of Suppression Thu, 2013-05-09 13:57 ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post
Here's an expose where a fast thinking man, with some connections, got a lucky enough to have proof to expose the fuel saving suppression.
It is not a documented case. This story and your comments about it is evidence of an internet rumor, but not of an actual event without independent corroboration in the records of the authorities it invokes. And corroboration should be easy. There is no reason for "Jay" to hide anymore, since the story itself says the law has been "running its course" and "they" already know who "Jay" is and where he lives. So this whole thing should just be out in the open. If it were credible, it would offer full names for the victims and the officers and perhaps specific court dates and docket numbers, but it does not, which should raise suspicions about the authenticity of this account for any critical reader. But when you realize it looks like scores of internet rumors regularly debunked at snopes.com, you should also realize it's almost certainly bogus and not worth pursuing.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



 
Old 09-15-2013, 11:35 AM   #157 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 608
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
As I figured, people here will not believe even if Jesus himself presented it.

Well after all your effort to drive like kooks and to streamline your cars, finding a system that might give you twice the MPG where all your efforts failed to do, I too would not want to hear about it either.

I will not bother you any more.

Rich
 
Old 09-15-2013, 01:09 PM   #158 (permalink)
In Lean Burn Mode
 
pgfpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,428

MisFit Talon - '91 Eagle Talon TSi
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 41.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,031
Thanked 484 Times in 316 Posts
racprops have you ever consider buying a OBDII car that you can tune yourself with full access to the internal software program.

This way you could see for yourself that the OBDII is or is not the root of the problem for a major increase in FE.???
__________________
Pressure Gradient Force
The Positive Side of the Number Line

 
Old 09-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #159 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 608
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
racprops have you ever consider buying a OBDII car that you can tune yourself with full access to the internal software program.

This way you could see for yourself that the OBDII is or is not the root of the problem for a major increase in FE.???
Just when I was sure I was NOT coming back...

Well I do not have money for another car...if I did I would not be tiring to start a new company...

AND there is no such a car as far as I know of...but I am curious as to what car your talking about.

My experience with OBDII is they are locked up tighter than Fort Knox.

OR did you mean a OBDI system and if so I already have a EPROM Emulator and a laptop and software for that.

Problem is 80% of cars are now OBDII cars, so as a business learning how to do OBDI is a waste of time.

And it looks like to tune OBDII PCMs is kind of like service the early modular TVs' ever model year it took a whole service kit running around $500.00 per...

The devices to get into OBDII PCMs look like they run the same deal around $350.00 per make and model and then $125.00 for the license again per each car and I have not got the price for the software and all the learning/training time getting into it.

I was hoping to find guys already set up and doing them.

Rich
 
Old 09-15-2013, 01:36 PM   #160 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 918
Thanks: 218
Thanked 324 Times in 228 Posts
This is so full of conspiracy nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post
As I figured, people here will not believe even if Jesus himself presented it.

Well after all your effort to drive like kooks and to streamline your cars, finding a system that might give you twice the MPG where all your efforts failed to do, I too would not want to hear about it either.

I will not bother you any more.

Rich
I build HHO systems that flat out work. Within reason.

And I have had no problems with "suppression".

I have a business with a BBB listing as well as a phone number. I have my name and engineering license on various white papers and trade journals. And yet, no oil company "goons" have come to take me and my knowledge away. I have had them contact me for process subsystems and for my knowledge in toxic compound remediation. If you can help them make a buck, they will contact you. Oil companies WANT greater fuel economy because it extends their business base.

What I have had, is a stream of investors and "partners" that "want in" if I can make a doodad that will "double a cars fuel mileage" with a single stroke. I show them the required monies needed to do a proper integrated system that meets both governmental requirements as well as customer satisfaction requirements but "only" produces 15% fuel economy advantage in the EPA FTP 75 drive cycle. They tell me I obviously don't know what I'm doing since I don't know how to double a cars fuel economy.

People such as you, racerops, damage the credible work efforts of the aforementioned FVT, Transonic and others - people who have real engineering efforts building real science based products. The hurdle to bring such systems to market is so huge, that most will fail. Not because of "suppression" but because that is the way the market works.

The internet has allowed us wonderful connectivity to a wealth of information. It also allows us to derive an "internet education" that can be dangerous as information without the filter of foreknowledge results in errors. It also allows errors to rapidly propagate without the strictures of editing and proper peer review. It results in people ignoring extensive education, experience and criticism and simply saying "that's all nice and all . . . but look at this YouTube video!"

You have not presented "Proof". You have produced anecdotal evidence. If you cannot discern the difference, you will have great problems in argument here. I can already see that you have. I reside on the Ecomodder forums even though I disagree with many about things like HHO and vapor carbs. Many are adamant in their belief that they cannot work at all. But, to their credit, they have this section ( the unicorn coral ) that at least allows discussion. My goal is to develop a rolling testbed I can drive to the various members in the North American region and have them test it to their satisfaction. Will it "double your mileage"? No. Will it be "marketable"? Most likely not. But, it will expand our knowledge base which is the goal of this forum. How long will it take? I don't know. I still have to earn my daily bread like most people.

And it is obvious you have not extensively read through the forum content. Many people DO double their mileage on a regular basis with reasonable driving and aerodynamic modifications as well as good vehicle choices.

 
Closed Thread  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com