Trollinsight Modding Thread (2000 Honda Insight) - Page 20 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

IamIan · 01-27-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

The "Phases" you are talking about is the switch held on (Phase-I) and the switch relased after engine cutoff (Phase-II) ? If this kill the engine like when you key EOC, then you could really bump start like I do. Not with the electric motor.

Phase-I is while my FAS button is being held down ... in this phase it is cutting the fuel injectors ... and the engine stalls... that it similar but a bit different from Key off type.

Then in Phase-II I release the FAS button ... but the FAS mechanism holds a faked clutch signal ... I even use this Phase-II when I get OEM Auto-Stop ... I don't have to hold the clutch to hold the Auto-Stop.

I have bump started from FAS.... the electric motor is not needed to restart from FAS ... the electric motor can be used ... but it is not needed ... but you do have to leave Phase-I ... because as long as you are in Phase-I you are cutting the fuel injectors and the ICE can not restart... Even if I use the IMA to force the ICE to spin, there will be zero combustion with zero fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

About the DC-DC...

If the signal is normal the DC-DC converter default condition is alternator like mode. Then if you cut that signal with a switch. The DC-DC converter will stop working in alternator like mode until you return to OEM signal, right?

You're backwards.

The only signal the car sends to the DC-DC is to tell it to stop and turn off. If you cut the control wire ( or temporarily break it via a relay or switch ) the car is not able to tell the DC-DC to turn off.

Without the car telling the DC-DC to turn off ... by default it will stay on in Alternator like mode as long as it has IMA high voltage battery connection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

Then what doesn't work? What I was thinking about is a way to decide if the DC-DC converter works in whatever condition it wants or is OFF. I was not talking about the DC-DC enable thing. Why would I want to charge my 12v battery even during OEC when what I want to do is make the DC-DC converter work less often. You could compare this idea to an "alternator ON/OFF switch" on conventional cars.

90% of my mileage is short trips. So I could let the DC-DC converter off all the way and charge my 12v battery at home without problem. I want to save the 144v juice for assist and also to charge less often.

It's your car and is up to you ... but there are many reasons to want to be able to still have 12V alternator function while in FAS and not burning any fuel.

You can charge the 12V battery at home instead of in the car if you like ... just be careful ... lots and lots of things you need operate from the 12V system ... and the OEM 12V battery was sized under the assumption you would have DC-DC alternator like function available to recharge it... there is also a minimum amount of 12V battery needed for the 144V system to work ... if you drain the 12V too low , you won't have any assist available , even if the 144V battery is 80% SoC... if that happens your idea of saving 144V energy for assist is mute as you can't use it, if you drain the 12V too much.

You can also charge the 144V battery at home if you like.

HyperMileQC · 01-28-2014, 12:53 AM

Thanks for your clarifications on the Insight electricals

.

I'll try to do a FAS but i'll probably won't do DC-DC enable. If you want to bump start after FAS you have to hold the switch so it stay in Phase-I, right? Then you release the switch when the engine starts I guess.

I already have a dumb grid charger for the 144v battery but I don't charge in the winter. This is one of my favorite mod.

On the DC-DC switch, what would I have to do to put off my DC-DC converter when I drive? Would it even be possible? If not, I'll probably stop thinking about this modification.

I already did some modifications to reduce my electricity consumption like EPS disable, LED position lights, tail lights, map lights and immatriculation light. I also disabled the DRLs. I will soon replace all my cluster lights with LED. I try to turn off the radio some times...

Also when you do P&EOC your electricity consumption is reduced because more than 50% of the time your engine is off.

IamIan · 01-28-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

If you want to bump start after FAS you have to hold the switch so it stay in Phase-I, right? Then you release the switch when the engine starts I guess.

backwards.

In Phase-I --- holding in FAS button.
You have zero fuel going to the ICE. That is how it stops the engine from running in the 1st place. As long as you hold FAS in Phase-I like that you can not have any combustion. You will not start the ICE. The most you will do is turn the ICE at some RPMs as an air pump, burning not gasoline.

To bump start.
You just need FAS to be off and the ICE to rotate fast enough 800+ RPMs. Similar to bump starting after a key off state. You do not want to be in any FAS if you want the ICE to start and burn gasoline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

I already have a dumb grid charger for the 144v battery but I don't charge in the winter. This is one of my favorite mod.

I think the biggest benefit of a grid charger is as a method to extend the useful operating life of the 144V battery. That only takes one to do a full balancing grid charge like once every 6 to 8 months.

It can be used to save a bit of fuel ... but not much.
Absolute most about ~1/20 of a gallon per full grid charge ... More realistically Real Life an upper end max of only about ~1/50 of a gallon per Grid Charge. It is something, but it isn't much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

On the DC-DC switch, what would I have to do to put off my DC-DC converter when I drive? Would it even be possible? If not, I'll probably stop thinking about this modification.

Off the top of my head.

#A> Disconnect the DC-DC from the 144V IMA battery.
It has it's own power line. That wire can be unplugged, cut, or a big enough switch of relay.

#B> Disconnect the DC-DC from the 12V battery.
It has it's own power line feeding up from the rear of the car. You could, unplug it, cut it, switch or relay it.

#C> Mimic the 'turn off' control signal sent to it, and send a copy of it yourself.

#D> Fake the DC-DC's internal temperature sensor.
If it thinks it is too hot, it will turn off.

#E> Remove the Dc-DC converter from the car.

etc ... etc ... I'm sure there are many others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperMileQC

I already did some modifications to reduce my electricity consumption like EPS disable, LED position lights, tail lights, map lights and immatriculation light. I also disabled the DRLs. I will soon replace all my cluster lights with LED. I try to turn off the radio some times...

Also when you do P&EOC your electricity consumption is reduced because more than 50% of the time your engine is off.

Nice Conservation efforts / mods.

Those will help.

But just be careful.
If you do proceed.
At the very least, I would recommend putting in a 12V meter so you can see how far you are pulling it down. Also , upgrade the 12V to a larger capacity than OEM battery.

If you want to be precise you can put a camp on amp meter on the 12V while driving and such ... log your usage rate ... that will also help you to get a better idea of how long a given usable capacity in the 12V battery will get you.

HyperMileQC · 02-04-2014, 12:21 PM

Received my cluster LED lights last week so I will remove my cluster soon and take some pictures after installing them

HyperMileQC · 02-18-2014, 12:46 AM

Update : It has been so cold outside these day that explains why my trip log is low 60's mpg.

Haven't did any mods since a while, just waiting for the temps to go up...

I also have the nasty impression that my lifetime mpg will fall into the 70's mpg soon

But I haven't give up, still doing my best, just differently.

HyperMileQC · 04-14-2014, 12:39 PM

Update : long time I haven't updated this thread. This weekend I did a 182 mi. trip to Boileau, QC, I have made a trip log in the garage section that describes the go and returning trip. Did 77 mpg (US) for both legs. That's on a really hilly road with lots of stuff and a passenger plus winter tires.

I decided to keep my winter tires because I didn't know if there would be alot of snow but I could have made it on my summer tires. I took an appointement this week to install my summer tires and the MPG will go up like magic! XD

Quote:

I also have the nasty impression that my lifetime mpg will fall into the 70's mpg soon

My lifetime mpg is at 80.1 mpg and didn't dopped lower than this!

HyperMileQC · 04-16-2014, 12:35 AM

I will fillup on thursday as usual. I am at 683.1 mi and 69.7 mpg on the FCD. More realisticly it should be around 67 or 68 mpg so I have ~32 mile left to go to job tomorrow and return and then the day after I have to go to change my tires so I will fillup on the go trip. I think I'll bring 1 liter in a gas can with me just in case.

Also if the temperature doesn't drop below 0°C during the night this weekend I will start grid charging my HV battery pack again. I just need to rebalance it again before because I think it has suffered from the winter and is completely debalanced. It gives me really frequent recalls. Nearly all week. My Boileau trip helped it a little bit because I gave it a few cycles but the cells are just in need of a grid charge...