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Old 09-23-2016, 05:24 PM   #111 (permalink)
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To be fair to them, someone responded from the info@ address pretty quickly. A simple matter of conflating ASCII #108 with #73, a common enough thing when you only look at the human-readable text in a proportional font.

Do 25-year-olds even know who Nathan Fillion is?

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Old 09-24-2016, 09:31 AM   #112 (permalink)
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The New York auto show footage seemed to have some rappers or something and some guy from Rachel Ray? Then plenty of actors have been getting rides. I know they aren't the biggest names, but just a step away from Fallon or Kimmel, or you could get a Leonardo pretty easy being electric and all.

I say just make them, get them on the street and they will sell themselves. You see it in many of the videos.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:07 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gregsfc View Post
The more that we see start ups come in and propose models that blur the lines between motorcycles and cars regarding some of these reverse trikes, especially if they're seen as possible mass market alternatives at affordable prices, the more likely and the quicker NHSTA will come in and redo the classification system and bankrupt all these start ups.

From what I can tell from these pics, Acrimoto and Elio and a few others better hurry up production or just stop now, as gov't regulators may grandfather vehicles already up for sale at the time changes are made..
I'm sorry but you are totally wrong.

NHSTA position has been quite clear for over a half century on 3 wheelers.

Just because Elio lobbied hard to get trikes reclassified to require crash tests and smogging did not change their stance on this issue. (Elio would love nothing more than having a car that does not require a special motorcycle license)

I also don't think any car companies are the least bit concerned about 3 wheelers as they won't appeal to a normal new car buyer
and even if they do they will be a 2nd car toy. I have yet to meet a woman that would drive an Elio, let alone Arcimoto (but some would be willing to be a passenger)
Many 3 wheelers have been on the market over the last 50 years some superior in some ways to the Elio, at no point did people flock to them.
Arcimoto no different.

And let's face it, the big three write the crash laws to favor whatever they happen to be offering. Working in the auto industry I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt auto makers do everything in their power to be apart of the federal level decision making process. And if something unfavorable to them comes down the pipe, they lobby, then sue then ignore if at all possible.

Believing that the type of people who frequent this forum represent normal car buyers is foolish, although I would love an enclosed 3 wheeler I'm not normal.

Folks here represent the 1% of folks who are doers and intelligent.

Normal car buyers won't even recognize the Elio or Arcimoto and the market by either impact will be small.

Last edited by rmay635703; 09-24-2016 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:18 PM   #114 (permalink)
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I think you are wrong about the Elio. They lobbied because they knew they, with their potential volumes, could do it, while other smaller companies could not. It's why Walmart is for an increase in minimum wages. I also think you are wrong about the rules changing. Nobody has mass produced a 3 wheel in all standards, car, in the US. So put 100,000 of them on the road and 2 cute 16 year Olds are going to get massively squashed in one. Then will come the lawsuits, what do you mean it wasn't a car and didn't have to meet crash standards? Then the calls to Congress, you have to do something! Then the politician, if we can save just one child's life..
If Elio really wanted their product to be a car they could throw an axle on the back and 2 wheels. They made it 3 wheels to skirt the rules plain and simple. Heck, as you pointed out, it would sell better as a 4 wheeler and that would add very little cost.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:00 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I think three wheeler is not needed. In Europe
we have these here: AIXAM - Leader in quadricycles in France and in Europe

They are in small motorcycle category, but speed limited to 50 kmph.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:08 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I think you are wrong about the Elio. They lobbied because they knew they, with their potential volumes, could do it, while other smaller companies could not. It's why Walmart is for an increase in minimum wages. I also think you are wrong about the rules changing. Nobody has mass produced a 3 wheel in all standards, car, in the US. So put 100,000 of them on the road and 2 cute 16 year Olds are going to get massively squashed in one. Then will come the lawsuits, what do you mean it wasn't a car and didn't have to meet crash standards? Then the calls to Congress, you have to do something! Then the politician, if we can save just one child's life..
If Elio really wanted their product to be a car they could throw an axle on the back and 2 wheels. They made it 3 wheels to skirt the rules plain and simple. Heck, as you pointed out, it would sell better as a 4 wheeler and that would add very little cost.
The rules will only change if someone large pays to have them altered.

There are already over 100,000 trikes on the road, kids get squashed everyday. One guy had his kid riding on the handle bars and died, only sympathy came.

In Wisconsin helmets were required due to a lot of deaths.
Cyclist rights folks then came out in mass protesting the law and got it overturned.

Our state after a steady decrease in highway deaths decided to up speed limits to 70 mph to help with sagging road tax revenue.
The roadways with the new limit have had a 35% increase in highway deaths.
The states official response is that in the last year the number of young and elderly drivers has skyrocketed and that they have a 5 year plan to increase speed limits on other highways and secondary roads.


I can go on but the rule of law rarely has to do with safety, this isn't 1950.

You have a right to your opinion but you are nave if you believe the laws will change proactively.

Also there have been companies who had the ability to mass produce trikes but don't because of simple demand. 3 wheelers don't sell except when catering to a niche, they are produced at high prices in low volume because there isn't enough demand
It is possible people all love 3 wheelers now but I doubt it.

Last edited by rmay635703; 09-24-2016 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:38 PM   #117 (permalink)
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You have a right to your opinion but you are nave if you believe the laws will change proactively.
JOHN MAYALL & THE BLUESBREAKERS - THE LAWS MUST CHANGE LYRICS

1969. Sometimes it takes a little time.
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:19 PM   #118 (permalink)
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I don't think the laws will change proactively, I think they will change for the same reason every other law is changed, politics. Also americans accept motorcycles as death traps and there is little sympathy when one is killed even if the cyclist was doing everything right. That said the Elio is not marketing themselves as a motorcycle, and they are going out of their way to talk up saftey. Personally if I was making them the furthest I would take saftey would be to say it's safer then a motorcycle. Anyway, about the laws, lawmakers on tye federal level use any crisis they get to increase regulation and control. Local is often different as they are actually connected to their voters. What the people want the people often get on the local level. On the national level those politicians will use the opportunity to advance laws that pick the winners from those who have supported them with money. So big corporations and unions, both would prefer to curtail any new inexpensive competition in the transportation world. Oil companies don't want to save gas. Unions don't want people moving from public transportation or non-legacy car startups with non-union shops or shops in right to work states. Basically there will be money to leverage a change in the law, they just need a reason which they haven't had.
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:27 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seifrob View Post
I think three wheeler is not needed. In Europe
we have these here: AIXAM - Leader in quadricycles in France and in Europe

They are in small motorcycle category, but speed limited to 50 kmph.
They would need to be legalized here, quadracycles are still illegal here, in my area 4 wheeled bikes are also "illegal" by the letter of the law.

As to hers erg I think him and I mostly agree but the difference is timing, I don't think his fears will be realized in the next 10 years for a variety of reasons.

I am of the standpoint that you complain about what's at hand, Neither of these products exist for sale, that is my complaint, I would worry about legal issues when I can buy the product and not before.

Also we have the power to alter laws, even to our own detriment, I have no doubt specific elements of pollution laws, gray market laws, laws against small homes and other elements of law can be changed with a concerted effort by grass roots elements.

If something irritates me enough I will go to the effort to cause greater irritation to the special interest and the government element in control of it such that they reconsider.

I've done it before, sometimes I think people forget their own power but it has to be a very specific change to work. A threat of the correct type (legal) can sometimes dumb found pure stupidity and stop government actions.
Civil disobedience has its place as well but it must be for a very narrow reason and directed toward specific individuals to work.

I say the above because I might sound like a negative nancy , the truth is I am frustrated by the lack of speed and type of changes coming down the pipe.
More irritating still is the fact that I might have to get off my arse and fix it.
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:17 PM   #120 (permalink)
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https://www.arcimoto.com/2017/01/arcimoto-community-update-year-end-2016/




So it appears my reservation number will come up in the Fall.

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