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Old 09-17-2019, 02:43 AM   #6881 (permalink)
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About living at sea level.
We always lived at sea level. We recently discovered a Roman road nearby (Vianen) deep in the ground, well below our current sea level, but permanently dry in Roman times 21 centuries ago and up until recently. It would still be above sea level if we had not burned fossil fuel over the last 2 centuries.
So, must we flee for mindless spillage, or must we fight it?

I banned Oil Pan for a reason, but I just viewed his blocked message anyway. It just confirms I did the right thing.

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Old 09-17-2019, 11:14 AM   #6882 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Reference, please.
The artic was supposed to be ice free by 2016 according to al gore. That was supposed to involve some degree of possible catastrophic coastal flooding.

What I find hilarious is all the people who say they are worried about sea level rise but they drive gas burners and live on the coast, even below sea level.
Well I guess you guys are just imitating your leadership. Gore buys a 9 million dollar beach front mansion, then Obama buys a 15 million dollar one a few years later.
So what is there to worry about?

What's even more ironic is the energy to build the stuff and power the pumps to live below sea level is all provided by fossil fuel power or on the back of fossil fuel power.

I lived on the east coast, about 500 feet from the water from early 2006 to late 2010. I learned by the end of 2006 that living on the coast is stupid. I always thought it was stupid then experience comfirmed it.
Every time there is a bad cyclone heading to the coast everyone buys everything at the stores, boards buildings up and runs away.
Buildings get wrecked then rebuilt every 10 to 20 year. Such a waste.
I wasted thousands of dollars per year on flood insurance to insure other people's stupidity.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:18 PM   #6883 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil
We recently discovered a Roman road nearby (Vianen) deep in the ground, well below our current sea level, but permanently dry in Roman times 21 centuries ago and up until recently.
So fossil fuel cause it to be buried in the ground? You're not that far from Doggerland.

You can ban people?
Quote:
Buildings get wrecked then rebuilt every 10 to 20 year. Such a waste.
This one was built in 1980 with a sight-line to the mouth of Alsea Bay. Hand split cedar shakes applied with stainless steel staples, no paint on the outside.

It will last as long as the sand it was built on.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:41 PM   #6884 (permalink)
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Excellent essay explaining divestment. Would it really help restrict new fossil fuel development? Or just allow the biggest corporations to take over weaker start ups and buy up their own shares for pennies on the dollar?
.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...urce=actionkit
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The real solution is to reduce demand by austerity and eventual replacement. Firms supply whatever consumers demand. But you cannot reduce an energy source without first eliminating the demand for it, or firstly replacing it. And new carbon energy build out is still outpacing wind and solar energy build out by 4:1.
 
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:44 PM   #6885 (permalink)
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Thumbs up for the comments... I'll read the article soon.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:08 PM   #6886 (permalink)
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I'm trying to read it but it's. so. hard. The constant nag screens about subscribing but mostly the writing invoking drunks crashing into school buses and calls for Twitter shaming and the Green New Deal.

Wind and solar are only a part of the solution, there's no mention of nuclear power or nanotechnology. No concern that the energy companies might be diversifying into tidal power and liquid metal batteries?

No concern that using the banks as a weapon won't blow back?

I might go back to finish it and the comments, the scroll bar is about 5/8ths down.

edit:
Finished it. It didn't get any better. People craving the power that the banks and insurance companies have.

I didn't see any comments.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:46 AM   #6887 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
So fossil fuel cause it to be buried in the ground? You're not that far from Doggerland.

You can ban people?
No, the road got disused and overgrown in medieval times, then year over year the soil built up piling over a meter on top of it. It only flooded over once in a while when the river broke in exceptionally heavy spring flooding (back when the Alps still had big glaciers).
In a way fossil fuels have contributed to burying the road as by speeding up the demise of the glaciers it increased the flooding. But the road was above sea level until recently.

I meant block, I cannot and would not ban people.
I don't mind if Oil Pan rants the way he does, that's freedom, no?
I just chose to not read any of it anymore. It isn't informative nor funny.

Doggerland is the prime example why we should worry about sea level rising.
Then, like now, sediment from the rivers built up where it met the sea, creating vast fertile clay planes. This takes thousands of years.
Because of its richness many thousands of people lived there, the population must have been much more dense than elsewhere in Europe. Archeological evidence of habitation in Europe from that period is sparse, but the sand we dig up from the North Sea to protect our beaches does contain lots of artifacts and bones of household animals etc. It was a good place to live.

Some 8000 years ago the temperature had risen gradually and so did the sea level; Doggerland got flooded over and the process of sediment buildup had to start over again further inland.
The process was still under way when civilization started in earnest. We dried out the marshes, dug away the peat, put dikes around the lakes we created that way and pumped them dry to work the fertile land exposed. We learned to protect ourselves from occasional storm floods, how to keep the soil fertile for sustainable farming.
There's no reason why this would ever have to stop if the sea level would not rise faster than a meter in 1000 years or so. The soil would just build up like it did over the Roman road.
Only some exceptional disaster, like the whole world losing their minds and burning fossil fuel like there's no tomorrow, could threaten us.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:40 AM   #6888 (permalink)
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I don't understand how someone who is worried so about sea level rise can live below.
I'm just going to have to say they are full of it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:28 AM   #6889 (permalink)
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Malthus

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Malthus' premise was,that food supply would always determine population.Food production and nutritional content is already in decline,so we have challenges for 9-10-billion souls.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:31 AM   #6890 (permalink)
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I'd throw in critical thinking skills on top of that.

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