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Old 08-05-2019, 05:47 PM   #6411 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
False equivalence
Ah, you agree that [blah, blah,blah].
This line of [not]reasoning isn't productive.

If you watch this I will watch it again. I may have dozed off the first time.



edit:
I reconsidered.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4
It stopped being about science a long time ago......
Ah, you agree that AGW deniers started talking a long time ago.
Quote:
Ah, you agree that AGW deniers falsely set themselves equivalent to science & scientists.
There is a presumptive equivalence between the end of science and the beginning of discussion.

Suppose one accepts the science (all of it! Space Weather included) and denies the economic prescription of the Green New Deal. Eh?

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Old 08-06-2019, 12:48 AM   #6412 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
There is a presumptive equivalence between the end of science and the beginning of discussion.
Correction:
There is a presumptive equivalence between the end of science and the beginning of discussion(by AGW deniers).
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:17 AM   #6413 (permalink)
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What's this 'end of science'? It is progressing faster than we can keep up.

There is a point where hard science and socio-economic theorizing overlap. That's what you are referring to?

Are you just here to kill the thread?
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:35 AM   #6414 (permalink)
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Science doesn't end with the beginning of discussion, unless...

https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-08-04

There's a difference between a valid healthy discussion and the battle of attrition we sometimes seem to have.
There's no open discussion if money, love, jobs, religion or memories of the old days are involved. Things one will never give up.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:42 AM   #6415 (permalink)
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The definition of science is:
A systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions.
The AGW religion is lacking in the "testable" area.
So they collect, build and organize knowledge or data and make predictions. Make lots of predictions, but are very short on testable anything.
Normal science uses tests, experiments, reproducible experiments.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:33 AM   #6416 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The definition of science is:
A systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions.
The AGW religion is lacking in the "testable" area.
So they collect, build and organize knowledge or data and make predictions. Make lots of predictions, but are very short on testable anything.
Normal science uses tests, experiments, reproducible experiments.
Yeah, good thing they laughed Newton down when he proposed that gravitational attraction is proportional to the inverse square of the distance between two bodies, since there was no way of testing that hypothesis with a simple experiment. Instead, they had to rely on observations of the natural world. Plebes.

Oh wait! Turns out, that's science:

"Science consists simply of the formulation and testing of hypotheses based on observational evidence; experiments are important where applicable, but their function is merely to simplify observation by imposing controlled conditions."
Robert H. Dott, Jr., and Henry L. Batten, Evolution of the Earth (2nd edition)

"Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence."
Science Council

"The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."
Oxford English Dictionary

“Nothing before had ever made me thoroughly realise, though I had read various scientific books, that science consists in grouping facts so that general laws or conclusions may be drawn from them.”
Charles Darwin

And Newton himself:
"In this philosophy particular propositions are inferred from the phenomena and afterwards rendered general by induction."
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:11 PM   #6417 (permalink)
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No love for Bucky Fuller?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDG
Design Science | The Buckminster Fuller Institute [Search domain http://www.bfi.org/design-science/pr...esign-science]
Fuller thereby expands the realm of "design"; the scientific method is essential, for "design science" involves the application of principle. He points out that "generalized principles" are eternal truths, as opposed to special-case statements or transient facts, and as such are inherent aspects of reality waiting to be discovered.
The brain deals in facts, the mind deal in generalized principle. Further to the idea that excessive heat is not the biggest danger, via Suspicious 0bservers this morning:

https://www.eneuro.org/content/early...O.0094-19.2019

Quote:
New concerns for neurocognitive function during deep space exposures to chronic, low dose rate, neutron radiation

Abstract
As NASA prepares for a mission to Mars, concerns regarding the health risks associated with deep space radiation exposure have emerged. Until now, the impacts of such exposures have only been studied in animals after acute exposures, using dose rates approximately 1.5×105 higher than those actually encountered in space. Using a new, low dose rate neutron irradiation facility, we have uncovered that realistic, low dose rate exposures produce serious neurocognitive complications associated with impaired neurotransmission. Chronic (6 month) low dose (18 cGy) and dose rate (1 mGy/day) exposures of mice to a mixed field of neutrons and photons result in diminished hippocampal neuronal excitability and disrupted hippocampal and cortical long-term potentiation. Furthermore, mice displayed severe impairments in learning and memory, and the emergence of distress behaviors. Behavioral analyses showed an alarming increase in risk associated with these realistic simulations, revealing for the first time, some unexpected potential problems associated with deep space travel on all levels of neurological function.

Significance Statement Simulating the space radiation environment to date has been limited by available technology and restricted by the practicalities of implementing protracted terrestrial-based exposures. Now through the use of a new neutron irradiation facility, capable of simulating the realistic low dose rates found in deep space, we have uncovered striking neurobehavioral and electrophysiological defects in rodents subjected to continuous (6 month) low dose rate (1 mGy/day) neutron exposures. This study represents the first to document the significant adverse consequences of space relevant radiation dose rates on the brain, and points to the heightened risks associated with NASA’s upcoming plans for travel to Mars.
So when we reach Cosmic ray maximum later in the century people all over the world will be skittish, distressed, easy to anger and... wait a minute, it's like that already!
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:52 PM   #6418 (permalink)
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No love for Bucky Fuller?
I don't know that much about him, actually. One of these I'll go visit his house in Carbondale.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:58 AM   #6419 (permalink)
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At Permalink #6388 at 08-02-2019, 11:43 PM I posted
Quote:
Live in your head with your physical body in a bubble.
Coincidentally on August the First, John Prine premiered “Lonesome Friends of Science” from his latest album, The Tree of Forgiveness.
Quote:
The lonesome friends of science say
the world will end most any day
well if it does and that's okay cuz I
don't live here anyway
I live down deep inside my head
where long ago I made my bed
I get my mail in Tennessee
my wife my dog my kids 'n me
[Music]
those [redacted]s in their white lab coats
who experiment with mountain goats
should leave the Universe alone it's
not their business not their home
I'll go to sleep and it never rains my dog
predicts hurricanes she could smell a
storm a mile away that's all the news
we have today

My new favorite John Prine song. As for Bucky, he's not going anywhere. In a couple of senses.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:30 AM   #6420 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The definition of science is:
A systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions.
The AGW religion is lacking in the "testable" area.
So they collect, build and organize knowledge or data and make predictions. Make lots of predictions, but are very short on testable anything.
Normal science uses tests, experiments, reproducible experiments.
That is not circular debating, that technique is mislabel and discredit.

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