The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[oil pan 4]

This will go a lot further than "US made solar panels" (solendria).

That's pretty brilliant. Build reactors in ship yards, the only places where reactors have been built for the last 30 years so we know they can build them then ship them off to where ever.

This is going to happen a lot faster than fission power.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by niky

What's funny is that you can't even take those old measurements at face value. Variability in testing sites, equipment and conditions.

I believe I shared in here several months ago a discussion of tidal gauges, and the debate among researchers as to what the proper correction factors are for those gauges against satellite measurements.

What stood out is the realization that the lithosphere is truly a plastic thing. When you measure water levels, you're measuring them against gauges that will move up and down with the land it is on as the land rises or sinks due to any number of reasons... tectonic plates moving against each other, or rising or sinking due to the weight of ice or water, underground water, etcetera.

When people see a vast scientific conspiracy to "hide the truth", I laugh. Getting thousands of scientists to conspire on anything would require lobby money on the level of... well... oil companies.

That those companies are instead funding the denialists tells you something. They'd rather not waste their money building a majority consensus. More effective to create the illusion of conspiracy.



I was looking through some of the links. One scientist, on his blog complains that - personally knowing one of the scientists quoted - the guy was being taken out of context.

There are genuine skeptics there who propose that there are greater forcings than carbon, but they don't deny the data outright. Not like the politicians who composed the report do.



Increased warmth. Melting?

*I was referring to,what I believe they've called 'foehn' winds,which have gained in intensity, such that the increased snow,due to increased evaporation,are blowing the snow off the glaciers before it has an opportunity to collect.
*And yes,it's due to increased warming at the poles.
*And yes,there's unprecedented melting,most of which is occurring below sea level,as the warmer Antarctic water eats away at glacial grounding line.
*Also,as the ice goes away,the continent is gravitationally-rebounding upwards,as the weight of the ice mass diminishes.
*As this area of the world is also the home of volcanoes,volcanologists have concerns that stress from the tectonic rebound could trigger magma plug rupture,leading to explosive eruptions,which certainly would not be welcome,from an ice melting/sea-level rise perspective.
*Ash plumes ascending to the stratosphere could transport sulfate aerosols,which could mitigate some of the warming until they settle though.
What a can of worms!

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Why were oil companies lying about climate change since at least the 1970's - and now they acknowledge it is happening because of burning fossil fuels?

Could it be that those who are profiting from fossil fuels have been funding the FUD and the conspiracy theories?

A number of journalists have named some names,and institutions.
R.J.Reynolds Tobacco Company provided the playbook template for 'disinformation'/'denial','controversy',reinterpretation of data,doubt.etc..
'Doubt is Our Business',the book,addresses the mechanisms used to sow doubt.
The most important target is to spend millions delaying regulations,and reap billions for the effort.
*Congressmen are used.
*Lobbyists distribute the finances.
*Think tanks provide the outcome-based pseudo-science.
*Super-Pacs work through the political process to get like-minded politicians elected,which will do their bidding once elected.
*State election oversight committees are stuffed with PAC-approved appointees.
*The Federal Election Committee is stuffed with enough like-minded appointees that all the elections can be 'legally' rigged.
*The Supreme Court is stuffed with like-minded justices which can rule in favor of the PACs,like the stay of trial for the Children's Trust lawsuit,in Federal District Court,which was supposed to go to trial November,8,2018,in Oregon.
*The corporate news broadcasters won't even mention this case,so as not to offend the automakers and fossil-fuels companies which finance the Network's profits through advertising revenue.(don't bite the hand that feeds you)
It's delicious!
*The public school teacher,who's retirement pension will be funded from fossil fuel industry profits, is careful never to mention to the student body, the fossil-fuel money trough the educational system feeds from.
*Municipal,County,State government employees ditto.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Conspiracy theories do hide the truth. They are the #1 defense mechanism for anyone who can't deal with unwelcome facts when they become too obvious to ignore.

Inconvenient Truth

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Yes scientists lie.
It's called conflict of interest, you may have heard of this.
When a study is done and the scientists know where the money for the study comes from they find a result favorable to company funding the study at least 2/3 of the time.
Tobacco companies did this.
The worst one were studies paid for by sugar companies on sugar and any adverse health effect, studies funded by big sugar companies found that sugar had no adverse effects in 100% of studies over a 15 year period, which is statistically impossible.
Funding conflict of interest is very well known. I find it surprisingthat people who think they know so much about science have never heard of this.

I drive a leaf. The oil companies can kiss my arse.

The money me and my wife spend on gas had dropped by at least 80%.

I've been looking at an issue of Nature,and one of the articles is addressing scientific fraud 'n such.
*They've caught scientists plagiarizing one another's research work.
*They've caught researchers just making things up wholesale.
*They've advocated not only fining the scientists to the tune of like $10,000 each,they've also advocated fining the university,or research organization for letting the fraudulent work of their people leak out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bogus material,passing as legitimate,peer-reviewed science,making its way into public domain data-bases and archives,if unapprehended,can throw researchers off base for decades to come,wasting incalculable time and resources.
What a mess!

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Suddenly it all becomes clear to me.

Scientists lie. They have a vested interest in not telling the truth. They aren't in it for the good of the world, oh no; it is profit, and only profit that drives them.

On the other hand we have the enlightened bosses of the fossil fuel industry and the shareholders in their companies. They only want to do their corporate best, and let their commercial interest rule their actions - because it is good. A financial gain means a healthy company, and healthy companies lead the way to a healthy world. And their song of praise is just what the SUV and truck buying folks want to hear, how convenient. Don't let those stories about building pollution spoil the day - all that negativity is bad for you. It is bad to say those bad things, so burning fuel must be good. Only trying to save the world and protect the right to burn oil as fast as we can.

Follow the money.

It leads to the fossil fuel companies. Who earn more profits than any industry, in history.

[oil pan 4]

May the side with the most money win.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Everyone lies.
Only is a matter of whos you want to believe.

Oil companies make the highest profits ever in history. They have a massive incentive to lie - and they now ADMIT that they lied about climate change. Their shareholders are not going to be happy.

Scientists get grants so they can go sit on a glacier and gather data. They don't make any profit.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Oil companies make the highest profits ever in history. They have a massive incentive to lie - and they now ADMIT that they lied about climate change. Their shareholders are not going to be happy.

Scientists get grants so they can go sit on a glacier and gather data. They don't make any profit.

But they need to stop global warming or there won’t be enough glaciers left to seat them all...

[oil pan 4]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about how science works.

If the scientists works for free then what is the grant money for in the first place?

Scientists just don't so studies. If they work for a university they spend up to half their time campaigning and trying to raise funds. A large portion of their work is not science at all.

Using Google I still wasn't able to find where oil companies admit they lied about man made global warming.
That should be the easy top result for Google, given their bias.